382 Comments

1. 

   This is a really good explanation and exploration of the issues behind oDesk and Elance. I say this as someone who started her entire freelance writing career THROUGH these sites. I do think there are ways to use them wisely and responsibly, but the more experience and knowledge I gain, the less time I spend trying to find clients through these sites.

   I’ve been extremely blessed to find wonderful projects and clients, and I’ve learned a lot in a very short time because of my use of these sites (oDesk mostly). But, I am SO glad to be moving beyond the oDesk portion of my freelancing career!

   Again, fantastic job. You really explored the problem holistically and with extremely convincing arguments and evidence.
   • 

     Hi Rachael,

     As a first response on this article from a few years back, things have changed somewhat in the industry… but there is still the wild-wild-west of freelancer situations out there to deal with… as such… I would love to ask your input. What do you think about Ziptask? http://www.ziptask.com. Do you think it solves the headaches of outsourcing by placing the project manager in the middle to help facilitate the transaction and work through all of the little details with the developers? We have worked hard on the platform and feel it’s coming close to really nailing it. Would love to get your input.
     • 

       Did you even bother to read the article? Ziptask was indeed covered. Looks like you just showed up to spam for your site rather than making an actual comment about the article.
       • 

         I recently hired a contractor on Elance after hearing all the hype but it did not go as well as planned. The contractor started off well but then dragged it out to 4 weeks making excuses of family weddings lasting 2cweekes, etc. This was initially meant to be a 3 day project. The contractor also updated the theme without making backups. This caused problems with the website and screwing up all tables, layouts, etc. I opened a case on Elancebut hich was then ruled in the contractors favour – Stating that the contractor was not paid and Elance staff closed the case without having my website issue fixed first.

         Just a friendly reminder to all potential employers – Do not trust everyone on Elance and Upwork as these are mostly individuals with a a little experience thinking that they know everything about everyhing. However, when an issue happens, Elance will not rule in your favour.
         • 

           I am so sorry that you had a bad experience with a freelancer, and I know it does happen, BUT there are good Freelancers out there, some of us work really hard to make a name and a life for ourselves doing what we love. We spend hours working and pull late hours, while our families are warm in bed, we are still sitting here working to make sure our clients are happy. The few sad ones that are doing it just to make a quick buck or to rip people off should be ashamed of themselves. The rest of us that actually love what we do are the ones getting a bad name because of inconsiderate idiots like them. So yes, be careful but don’t hold each and every freelancer to this bad status, we are not all like them.
         • 

           I am a professional online bidder. I am also trying to develop my own profile in UpWork. Actually you had got the proposals placed by companies. Maximum companies impose monthly sales targets to bidders and they have to achieve.
           Generally two kinds of profile are used. 1> Individual freelancer profile and 2> Company Profile.

           Even I have seen some companies maintain several profiles under several brand names to Quote different prices. I hope you can understand that many bidders can not maintain the QUALITY of their BID PROPOSALS.

           Even many companies instruct their bidders to COPY & PASTE a generic proposal with some minor changes.

           You will see this problem mostly in freelancer.com as there is a Character Limit to write proposal. Apart from that you people see our proposal as a bunch of some sentences though we write our proposals in several paragraphs.

           IN UP WORK – There is a concept in India that you people do not have time to read the proposals so it is the meaningless to write proposal in detail.

           MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE – Even I have leave jobs from 3 companies for this reason. I generally write BID PROPOSAL in descriptive way but I had been forced to PASTE generic proposals, which I did not want to do and left the those companies by stating to my superiors “You will not get good project in this approach “.
         • 

           I was with Elance for years and had no problems whatsoever, but so, far I have had the worst experience with Upwork since the migration of the two platforms and I advise any employer to beware hiring a freelancer from Upwork. It has just become a complete nightmare. I posted a job to have a simple wordpress blog customized and uploaded at the beginning of February. We are now in April and I have had to cancel six different freelancers. I find that most of these freelancers are based in the India/Bangladesh axis. They do not communicate in English very well and will draw you in by saying they have a big team and can do everything you want. These are all lies. They are inexperienced and seem to work with the same pool of ‘jobbers’. One person goes online to get the job, making all sorts of promises and then it appears they farm the job out to lowly paid inexperienced developers. The minute they start the job they start asking you to release funds for the first milestone, which hasn’t even been completed. I think they need these funds to hire the freelancers to do the job. If you do not release the funds they are unwilling or cannot seem to go any further. Every request is met with an objection and the quality of work is just terrible. Terrible design skills, ugly looking sites and an endless plea to release funds for them to work with. They even send messages begging you to rate them with 5 stars and good comments, even though the job was never completed on time or at the level you expected. The rating system is hugely inaccurate and deceptive because most are not true. I would avoid using Upwork to source for a developer until they can sort out a better rating system and provide developers that actually know what they’re doing.
         • 

           Do beware of Sunil Sharma of HawksCode Softwares Pvt. Ltd. He went so far as deleting our template from our server, which we bought with our money. Upwork did nothing about this, took two months to reply and asked us to contact the hosting company to show a log of which IP addresses accessed our server. It wasn’t enough that our website had disappeared offline! There are lots of scammers on Upwork and they really do not know how to protect the client. I would definitely proceed with caution.
         • 

           Well, then again, you get what you pay for, if you want quality work, you got to be willing to pay for it. Use some common sense, if you are a business give yourself time to find the right freelancer to do your project and be REALISTIC about the wages to be paid if you want quality work.
           To put it in perspective, a lot of businesses are looking for a freelancer that is going to do top notch work for cents on the dollar, done the project in a day(sometimes within hours) and on top of that, they do not want to spend the time to explain in detail the particulars of the job, they expect the freelancer to do all the guess work.

           They need to understand that most freelancers or contractors on these sites are there catching gigs just to supplement their income. I’d say about 95% of them have real jobs or other main source of income so gigs from these sites never going to get the attention that is expected unless it becomes a significant source income for the freelancer.
         • 

           Hello Sir, I read your comment and must say, you are exactly right to some extent. In the case of freelancing such cases happen sometimes. But the actual matter is those who ruin any project of their clients, they are not actually professionals. They are actually morons. They even don’t know that making a delay in the project’s strict deadline can hamper the total business and his/her freelance career also, in terms, what its stands, he/she doesn’t actually care for the work not even for his/her career, and not even have a bit of passion.

           I would feel glad to say you, that freelance platforms are great, if you are dealing with a professional and dedicated freelancer who really cares about it. And for finding that person, before just awarding him/her the project, you must to interact with them regarding the subject. Must say, the terms, replying delivery and the way of handling client will be far different for a professional freelancer. then if you find he/she meets your concerns and understands it will, just click on award project, he/she will satisfy you. Finding the perfect is really quit hard, but the are lot of quality professionals available in such platforms. And they really charges well to provide their hard labor and talent. Freshers must be welcome, but after assuring that he/she have the dedication.
           I am also an experienced freelance writer, streaming in this freelance writing field for years, I write for maximum niches except from any supernatural facts. And have satisfied clients. Sir you just find the real one, and you will never get upset.

           Thank You.
       • 

         You are all right. Spam is obnoxious and nasty.
     • 

       I had a visit to ziptask.com as a result of this article. I am coming from the developer side, but I found the site didn’t cater to me. Why would someone be interested in a “Become a developer” link that just leads to a sign up form. You might want to let us in on the secrets (are they locked behind the signup?). Introduce some transparency for your organization and perhaps you guys could make a splendid service for developers.
   • 

     Hi,

     I love working through oDesk. The only thing is: clients are spoiled! They get 100+ applicants for the same job, which makes them under-appreciate quality.

     Currently i’m making $45 . hr, with a 4.98 feedback and i still have to negotiate constantly about that rate! I really feel that i’m at the maximum i can ask at this point. Luckily i have moved from EU to Panama where cost of living is lower. Without that i would be much better off working in a “real” agency.

     An oDesk career is possible but $5,000/ month is the maximum and you will get that only when working hard and updating your knowledge (I’m an SEO and lead teams of up to 8 people – in Europe i would make about $8,000 for the same job).

     Paul
     • 

       Hi Paul, I am a new freelancer. I have a question for you that I would appreciate if you could get back to me about it.
       In your response to this article you stated that you made 5000$ max per month. How many months in a given year you were able to make that amount?.

       Thank you,
   • 

     I’ve had the best results by perusing through freelancers and then inviting them to quote on the job. The best guys are too busy working to trawl through jobs. If you invite them yourself then they already know you are interested.
     • 

       Hey Ben

       The best guys are not always the ones who are too busy to trawl the job lists! How about the brilliant newcomers who spend hours looking for people who acutally award the jobs they post (I really hate that!!!) or who can’t seem to get past the jerks who are willing to post proposals for three bucks an hour. So frustrating to be a newbie.
       • 

         Amen sister! I have a solid portfolio and lots of experience, but I find it hard to find a job on Upwork (this is my first month using it, and I’ve applied to about 17 jobs). More than half of the jobs I’ve applied to have yet to hire anyone. I’ve also tried Designcrowd and 99designs, doing a few projects on each. The problem with these is that you can spend hours producing quality design and not get chosen (either someone else is chosen or no one is; the posters just disappear). Another problem is that job descriptions are also vague and you don’t get an opportunity to communicate with the client unless they hire you.

         When I freelance for someone I’ve met through networking, it goes well, there’s good communication, and we work together to complete the project. This route is reliable and rewarding. With these freelancing sites job descriptions are often vague and the chance of getting hired seems low. So, I recommend people test these sites out for themselves, maybe it will work for them but I really don’t have much faith in them.
         • 

           I applied to 95 jobs, got 42 interviews, and landed 10 gigs during my first two weeks on Odesk. 26 completed jobs later, I make about $2k/month. Apply-interview-get hired-complete work-get paid. Repeat. It’s a numbers game. I’m a writer with an hourly rate of $30 and a ton of non-Odesk experience locally. I want to work from home. It’s still work. Freelancers who complain that freelancing is hard work confuse me.
           “Just keep swimming.”
         • 

           Hi Kelly,

           I’m in the process of starting my own freelancing website. What things in a questionnaire form would you like to see when seeing a project? For example, would you like to see costs, time frame, country of origin, progress needed, description, etc? As a freelancer, your input would help greatly! Thanks!
       • 

         This was my problem. I’ve been working in Web design for years. Up until recently i worked for a company located nearby. So my portfolio is zilch because I can’t use the sites i worked on there. I’m trying to use upwork, but I don’t have a chance against $3/hr when I live in the US. I only ask for $10/hr and haven’t landed a single job.
         • 

           This is my problem, I have worked for some major companies in team lead roles and architect positions but I can’t put photos or links on the site. I don’t think these customers know just what I am able to do for them.
     • 

       I agree with you Ben, while I did see the point of some of the other replies to your comment, I was on Elance for over three years. I applied for jobs of course, but I really paid attention to the jobs I was invited to apply for, I felt that gave both client and I a better chance of working together.
   • 

     What platform you use now ?
   • 

     I’ve been with ELance since soon after they started in 2002. When they came out, they were the best thing going. They had a decent minimum for writing jobs ($50.00) which kept low-ballers and most article mills out of it. But over the years, they have over-tweaked and over-improved just about everything to where now, it’s just a shell of it’s former self. They allow people to post jobs, and then not hire anyone (there are YouTube videos telling people how to post fake jobs on ELance for marketing research….), post jobs way below what the min um should be, allow Article Mills to bid on jobs, then realist them at a fraction of the rates to hire low-ballers. And more…. The merge with oDesk just made it worse. I used to make a good living on ELance, but now it’s all I can do just to keep bills paid.

     As far as moving over to UpWorks when Elance dies, I am not sure I will be making the move. Most of my regular clients have already left Elance, and after Elance is gone. I can work with them on a one-to-one basis. I have also toyed with the idea of just writing books and selling them on Amazon.com. I ghost write ebooks all the time, and they are all doing well on Amazon. I am not convinced that UpWork is going to be any kind of an improvement. Unlessl they go back to setting minimum rates and bids, I don’t see much of a future for it.
     • 

       I haven’t used Elance for a couple years, and while I filled several jobs, I canceled several others. It wasn’t for market research, it was because there were no good proposals, and it was a waste of time. So, there are other reasons it happens, if that helps.
     • 

       I have also been freelancing over the UpWork platform for past 2 years (translation). I am done with it. The jobs on offer are increasingly just low-balling clients who want cheap, cheap, low-quality labour. UpWork makes a big thing out of talking up the importance of the freelancer profile and your rankings. However, as a freelancer you have very little input into the client rankings. Mostly the ratings are good if you do decent work for clients, but I have had clients rate my quality as poor, where their translation software was wrong – i.e., the “client” did not know the language. Many of the “Clients” are also just middlemen who posts a false on-line profile as a translation company, attracting clients that need translation work, then they post these as jobs and hire cheap UpWork freelancers, then run the documents through their language software and send a low-quality product off to the original client.
       I have asked UpWork what they are doing about these situations, and get nothing but standard corporate answers back from their helpdesk which also appears to be populated by lowly paid, poorly informed staff.
       What a joke. And that’s after paying 10% of my earnings to them + the standard fees for pulling your pay out and a lousy exchange rate etc.
       Upwork is all about making money on the platform. It is not a true freelancer meets clients community. Despite everything they try and tell you. Of course, we all should know better, but I always have hope that someone is actually trying to do things right out there. UpWork fits right in with Uber, AirBnB – they are all trying to get rich on the back of the rest of us.
       • 

         I agree fully with you that Upwork is all about making money on the platform. It is not a true freelancer meets clients community.
       • 

         I agree. I’ve been on Upwork for a few months and so far have been shafted on two jobs. Sure Upwork says that you can report these people for failure to pay but what’s going to stop them from starting a new profile and doing this again? I was trying to use Upwork as a filler while I looked for another job but it seems that it’s mostly meant to exploit freelancers and little else.
       • 

         Can you tell me where to find workers? I’ve been looking at upworks but it is so confusing!
     • 

       Joel, like you, I’m a freelance writer and have been with Elance for years. I was very upset at the Upwork transition as it flooded the clean pool with dirty water. I know this is January; classically the slowest time for my profession, but yikes! There are budgets limited to $20-50 for projects I typically landed via Elance for $2,500 – I’m a 5-star provider. I’m hoping that the dust will settle and clients looking for quality will identify those needs with reasonable budgets, but we have to eat in the meantime. I don’t see this as a “do it cheap now to build a reputation” sort of environment. I’m very interested in alternative sites where the craft is still respected. Anyone?
       • 

         Kim, I went from Elance to Upwork as well, and am so disappointed with Upwork! I would not recommend them at all. I’m currently looking for other freelance websites while I get my butt in gear to get a blog up and market my own stuff. Hoping others will suggest more options for us!
       • 

         Hi Kim

         I’m new to Upwork but already I can see flaws in the system. There are jobs on there wanting Christmas-themed artwork, and stating that the post is still open. But I believe these are ads that weren’t filled, but just remain on the site. I feel I have wasted numerous “Connect” points submitting proposals for jobs that don’t exist. The other issue is the price people are offering for professional artists. $5 for a job? I did several double takes when I started reading the ads. I have sent 30 proposals, and got one response. And that was after I seriously dropped my fee to try and reach a bit of compromise with people’s ridiculously (and insultingly) low budgets. Kim, do you know of any other creative art freelancer sites? Thanks, Doc
     • 

       Hi Joel,

       I’m in the process of starting my own freelancing website, and I need to improve on what UpWork and Freelancer lack-in. What things in a questionnaire form would you like to see when seeing a project? For example, would you like to see costs, time frame, country of origin, progress needed, description, etc? As a freelancer, your advice would help greatly. If you have any other input, I’d appreciate it! Thanks!
       • 

         Jon,

         I can help you with this as I was going down your path last year. My freelance business has kept me too occupied to pursue but I would be willing to share information with you and I would love to learn what you are doing differently. Send me an email bobodell(at)mail.com
   • 

     I may be the rarity, but I have received over$700,000 in payments from freelancer.com and upwork. It works fine for me.

2. Pingback: Freelance Scams to Watch Out For on Online Job Marketplaces

3. 

   Great title and great points. I’ve run into a downtime with finding local clients, so I’ve tried to hit elance and odesk. I have yet to find a job. I’ve even tried bidding on $5 + $10 jobs in hopes of being able to build a resume. But after hours of search and 50+ submissions, I only had 1 lead. And that lead ended up cancelling their job request.

   Along with your points, I wanted to add the following, from a contractor’s perspective:

   1. The international market creates a very unprofitable bidding war. I keep seeing these $1-$3 an hour bids from the Phillipines. I’m not questioning their quality at all, but for an American, there’s no way I can compete because most contractees will be looking at that range.

   2. It’s hard to build a profile. As I’ve mentioned, reputation is important. I knew that when I first became a freelancer. I have a very decent portfolio of works, but none of that matters on these sites because with all the bids (mostly spam bids) that go out, a contractee can quick filter by looking at how many jobs you’ve gotten.

   3. You lose a lot of time on these sites. One job for $800 is probably 10x more profitable than finding 8 jobs at $100. There’s just so much administrative time put into for every job: searching, clicking, typing cover letters, interviewing, getting rejected, etc.

   I have no doubt there are quality contractees out there, but I’m starting to realize that my time would be better used in other ways than trying to find them.
   • 

     Good point. With regard to the Philippine bids (between $1 to $3), that is understandable considering that the minimum daily wage required by Philippine government stands at $12 per DAY. At $2 per hour, on an 8-hour workday, the contractors can actually make more money than if they get a job that pays the minimum (and get taxed) for the same amount of time.

     This is comparing apples to apples – meaning, this is an oDesk/eLance virtual assistant job being compared to an assistant/clerical/encoder job in an actual office.

     Unfortunately, as you said, those in the US will find it hard to compete especially since you have a higher cost of living and your minimum wage is at $8 per hour if I am not mistaken.
     • 

       Minimum wage in Georgia is $5.65 per hour, and certain jobs are allowed to pay sub-minimum. Federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour, but again, it only applies on interstate companies, and some are still allowed to pay sub-minimum.

       Setting a minimum bid of $50.00. like they used to, kept the playing field even.
   • 

     Nope. In practice the “they’re competing at $3 an hour because their cost of living allows it overseas!” argument is a silly one. Just because people put in bids at $3 an hour doesn’t mean that bid is meaningful on a practical level. I receive mail for people claiming to be princes of Nigeria with a great deal for me all the time (well, in my spam folder).

     There may be some very silly employers who imagine they can get what they want (working software) from someone charging $3 an hour. You are winning the game by NOT having to work with such employers! It’s silly to complain about such spam any more than complaining about spam in someone else’s email inbox.

     These freelancing sites democratize telecommuting, so you can’t just compete with people in your town for the two tech jobs that might exist there. Instead, you have to reverse your tactics and compete on the merits of your quality, instead of price. And in that arena, it’s easy to stand out.
   • 

     Well, here in the Philippines, you can buy Starbucks at $2.00/cup. A decent lunch is $1.50. I have started with oDesk for a month and have landed with 2 jobs already starting with 3.00/hour as a graphic and web designer. I get higher with my regular job before but decided to get take this roite so I can spend more time with my kids.

     So, it is a win-win solution for my family. I have worked with an international company here but for most Filipinos like myself, we work in the same amount of quality and excellence as long as we are happy with the job and still have time with the family and a daily dose of Starbucks. 🙂
     • 

       Very good point. I used to work for a cruise line that employed a lot of people from the Philippines as well as Indonesia. Many westerners thought that the hour and pay for those employees was abusive and the company was taking advantage of them. Of the many of them I interacted with a good number of them owned a nice place, sent money back to the family, had a car and even a driver as well as housekeepers.

       Some people don’t understand how just a modest western salary is a fortune to some people. Best wishes to you.
     • 

       But do you realize you’re not behaving rationally? You’re making “enough” this way, but if you are truly good you could go out west and be earning upwards of $100/hour (you can even find this telecommuting sometimes). After you retire you can spend all the time you want with your family. By taking such ridiculously low pay you’re hurting the market for yourself as well as others.

       Remember: your salary is a price like any other, the value of it is the perceived value, not how much you can live with. Market rates for software development are over $100/hr and how much you can survive on has nothing to do with anything.
       • 

         Stan is correct in saying it’s not rational, but stan also needs to understand that there is a lot more to moving over to the western “paradise” then just deciding to do it.

         First you need a metric ton of cash (especially if yo uwork for 3$/h) and then you have to sever all ties and hope you find a good job where the western employer won’t treat you like his slave… I know the last one sounds far fetched, but you try going somewhere with absolutely no lifeline and you’ll start to think the same.

         Stan should also realize that western employers are not gonna pay a guy in the Philiphines a 100$/h. Not going to happen… Simply won’t (but it can get decent).

         P.S. I’m from southeastern Europe…
       • 

         Yes, talent truly pays. Though please see it this way. The only reasons Filipinos work abroad is because of FAMILY. If they can work here and take care of their families properly, they will. I am not questioning the family values of other nations, far from it. What I’ am saying is that, a college graduate here will most likely stay with their parents and provide FOR them allowing their parents to retire early. Also here, no one bats an eye when a couple gets married and stays with the parents of either the male or female. Relatives stay in one place, and such examples. Home for the aged here are also rare.

         So in terms of behaving rationally, it’s a simple question of what Filipinos are used to doing. A high paying job away from family is the last course of action for most Filipinos to take.
       • 

         I agree with this totally.

         Well said.

         D
     • 

       Hi Mia,

       I admire your comments and agree with your sentiment. Who needs riches if we have time with our families and good coffee too! My own issue with sites like eLance and oDesk is that they make it hard for employers like myself to find quality people. What I need is a great website designer specialising in WP who can also communicate effectively in English but lives in a country that offers some cost savings on hire. Mia you are a rose amongst the dandelions – if only you had linked your website…..sigh….
     • 

       Mia,
       I would like to ask you what would you charge me to help me set up a Google drive with Auto responses and auto e-mail to a business to build a Reputation online for that business<
       I need some who could set up the procedures and just help me get this thing started.
       Bob Mays
       RMays@TheMaysTeam.com
     • 

       $3.00 per hour for web graphics and web design….and people wonder why the freelance market is being destroyed?????? I wouldn’t flip hamburgers at McDonalds for $3.00 over hour.
       • 

         Exactly, Joel! Individuals like Mia, who practically write for pennies, are lowering the ongoing rates — and probably the quality, as well. Who in their right mind wants to work for $3.00 and hour? That’s crazy. Likewise, what kind of legitimate employer actually trusts someone who charges so little for their work?
   • 

     I agree. As a freelance web content writer myself, I have been trying for a long time to find writers who can meet my quality guidelines, and have not found anybody who can write for me without me having to edit so much that I have saved no time at all. I have paid for literally nothing!

     Consequently, my business is stagnating because it is depends entirely on my own writing. If there is anybody out there any one could recommend I would be pleased to contact them. I charge $15 for an 800 word article and would be prepared to pay $10 – I have yet to find anybody on any of these sites who can meet my requirements!

     Cheers,
     Pete
     • 

       Can we actually apply for this? I started out looking for a solution on Google about how to retrieve my E-mail and password for my Odesk account (haven’t logged into it for 2 years ’cause our computer broke). Now that we’ve purchased a pretty darn fast, fully-functioning PC, I am looking for a job. But first, the E-mail. Oy.

       I think I’m gonna end up having to create an entirely new account from scratch. Oh well!

       So I come across this post and to comment on your article? Very valid points about the company vs contractor dilemmas. Yes we end up competing on offering the lowest prices to charge the outsourcing companies in the hopes that we would be the ones chosen for the task being offered when we should be showcasing our talents which sounds ridiculous. I can only imagine how offputting this is for anyone from the 1st world countries to be competing with. Futile would be more like it, I suppose. What’s the point in even trying to apply at all, right?

       I do hope Odesk listens to these complaints you’ve raised and maybe even offer solutions and implement them, although ultimately I’m already grateful how because of their website and sites similar to theirs, despite how strenuous and time-consuming it is to apply for a job on Odesk, upside is the democracy how it’s made available to anyone in the world (as long as you have a decent internet connection) to be applying online nowadays. And yes, small to other countries could be a fortune to others.

       But can I apply for the Web Content Writer you’ve openly advertised, Mr. Nesbit? Stay at home mum here! *Grin* I’d need a few lessons but I’m known to be a fast learner.

       *Sigh* If only it were this easy to apply for a job. Lol. Hey, worth a shot! Have a great day everyone! Philippine-born, very family-oriented, Starbucks lover here. Couldn’t keep myself from commenting. Sorry about that.

       Anybody need transcription work by the way? Maybe this post is the solution to the Odesk issues you were addressing? Maybe Companies should come here to look for qualified contractors instead of Odesk or Elance? Haha. Oh that would be funny.
       • 

         Nisbet! Oh my goodness. My apologies! Winsse at yahoo dot com ^^
     • 

       Contractors outsourcing outsourced work, another big problem on freelance marketplaces.
     • 

       Hi Peter,
       I understand the standards you’re looking from a web content writer perspective. I also got the point that you need the best of best work from the members you hire. Please advise them to do a article on a selected topic of your choice and submit in 1 hour once they receive the mail and then hire them to do your work as once you hire there would be no options to make later

       Regards,
       Sebastian
     • 

       Well…you never asked me, and I have been a top provider in Writing and Translation on Elance since 2002. I have regular clients that have been with me for over 10 years. But $15.00 for an 800-word article is pretty low. You get what you pay for. I normally get anywhere from $25.00-$45.00 for a 1000-1400 word article. I am a regular contributor to over 15 websites, magazines, and newspapers, in addition to being a published author.

       Like I said, you get what you pay for. I don’t work for low-rates. If you want good stuff, you have to pay good money.

       Look me up on Elance, or go to my website.
       • 

         I work on Elance too, and I am getting good jobs and regular clients. However, I think with Upwork we are losing a lot when it comes to quality jobs and working conditions.
     • 

       Good Day, Pete,

       I think we should talk. I believe I am the kind of writer you are looking for. I have been working on o-Desk/Upwork for a number of years and am having difficulty getting meaningful work. Despite positive feedback from previous clients, I’m not getting jobs. I find the constant trawling for doubtful jobs irksome. Also, I find that many clients are seeking quantity over quality. I strive to provide a well-written, engaging product that is 100% original.

       I have written several e-books and lengthy reports – mostly in the diet/fitness/health/relationships niches.
     • 

       Hello
       How are you doing? I’ve read your comment and I’m interested in working with you. I’m an ex journalist currently working with Elance. I’ll be happy to write you a sample on any topic of your choice. Kindly let me know your feedback.

       Warm regards
       Zubeda
     • 

       Hi Peter.

       I would be interested to hear if you have found anyone to work with you as a freelance content writer? The post is a year old and may well be out of date so to speak!

       I am looking for something to augment my income while I continue live in an exotic location. The site I have sent you is mine, both in content and in terms of a physical entity. I am educated in the British system and am 54 years of age.

       Kind regards

       Les Conn
     • 

       You are exactly what is wrong with this whole situation.
   • 

     what exactly do you do- it might be better for for you to start working for your self independently of these companies – lots of people are looking for reputable virtual assistants
   • 

     DON’T BLAME THE FREELANCERS.
     If no Providers are looking at saving costs (those $1-$7.hourly / <$300 IT projects, etc) then all workers (from US, Euro, Afri, Asian, etc) will be happy!
     Blame those Providers (by exploitation) for being abusively cheap to all!
     ALL bidding "cheapos" die away if Providers remain ethical and pays good! Thus preserving the presence of quality freelancers.
     ———-
     On the otherhand, if you are in a business or a lazy employer (categorically then is Provider in this discussion) then who can blame you for looking ways to save on costs by all means…?! ETHICS that is.

     WELCOME to globalization EVERYONE! To some it's "big Bucks," to others it "wtf it Sucks" depending on the country.

     -by someone from the orient here

4. Pingback: A Fiverr Alternative That Doesn't Limit You to $4: LaunchAStartup.com

5. 

   Thank you for the analysis. It was good. I am particularly offering services on Elance but sometimes I have been led to wonder at the really low bids that are placed by mostly Asian contractors. Much as I also stay in a poor economy, but the bid prices placed by Indians are sometimes very ridiculous. I registered with oDesk but I feel like I cannot offer services there. Contractors can bid as low as $1!!!!!! This keeps me wondering, if a professional in those countries can work for as low as that, how about the non-professionals?!?!?!?!
   • 

     I’m fully agreed with you, Christine

     Not only Indians, many Pakistani, Bangladeshi also bid a project with $1 or $2. It’s not a matter of Country. It’s totally Unprofessionalism and they are just destroying the market. Now, many people, who submit a Project/Job over there, also want a very low price $1-$3 max and they got minimum 50+ applicant. How is it possible???

     I personally request all these type of contractors, please wake up guys. You are not beggar… you are professional. Don’t place a bid like this. By placing this type of cheap bid, you are just make yourself down as well as your country.
     • 

       I am a wordpress developer. Once upon a time I worked in odesk at 20 dollar per hour. But now you know the truth. I am from bangladesh. And I know some freelancers from Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Philippine are destroying the freelancing industry.

       I have quitted odesk already because of the low rate and I think very soon I will have to leave elance and freelancer too.
       • 

         Wow! How immature. Don’t generalize. I almost got scammed by those in your country pretending to be an employer in the US but just wanting his contractors to download a scheming app than have full access on a mobile phone.

         There will and always will be scammers in any part of the world.
       • 

         I’m agree with you at least about ODesk. I’ve been working on it for 4 years, but nowadays, it’s very difficult to get a contract. Once you’re above $10/h, it’s a real challenge to find a mission.

         If some contractors for indian subcontinent or Philippines break the prices, the responsibilities come also from the job providers that directly request very low prices : ie to make a full website for $25.

         Personally I can’t. I prefer to focus in quality of work. And you ?
       • 

         I fully agree with Christine and nirmalaya. These contractors just destroying the market also There is so much exposure of this paltform that guys who is working in a company also doing freelancing and whatever they getting its bonus for them and we stucked in between all this. We as a Indian company working from last 15 years on elance now going very bad, we always valued the average price nor high nor low, and now the time has come up like beggar where few contractors bid so low, that for company survival we have to keep our bid also low which sometime so frustrating – elance should filter individual and company sepertely and with few criteria
     • 

       Yes, you are right. I am also an Indian, and when I look at the $1 for 500 words, I am surprised to see after all how these people are surviving. Because of these beggars, most of the qualified and professional people are left unemployed. Fully agreed with you!
       • 

         Yeah…..Let the beggars die! smh
   • 

     I don’t charge less then $10/hour on ethics alone,I can’t work on freelance work for less then that.Work that involves having to code or design and think and come up with
     solutions.

     I suggest prior to hiring a freelancer there has to be a screening process where you can make sure the person can do what he or she says they can.(Skype or Phone Call face time)
     • 

       Ziptask screens the developers and project managers each time. The benefit of having a “fully managed outsourcing” experience, is that the project manager does all of the heavy lifting for the customer, making it more of a full-service experience.

       For the freelancer, this experience is even better, since it means you don’t have to hear all of the nonsense from the customer, and you can work with a more reasonable, knowledgeable project manager to help work through the technical concerns or challenges that may arise.
       • 

         Another post promoting Ziptask written on the same day as the other person who identified themselves as being from Ziptask. Tacky.
   • 

     What is it that you do? Maybe you need to work independently from these companies there are lots of people in the market that are looking for Virtual Assistants you may need to market and promote o yourself but this maybe a better way to go as you can set your own rate define your own terms etc
6. 

   i agree with the sentiments re oDesk and eLance – i’m surprised at how many inadequate job descriptions are written by the clients – i thought they were afraid to give away too much – until i saw some very thorough job descriptions

   i think most of the problem begins with the sloppy descriptions

   i hope that the clients are given tools to filter the bidders quickly – certain jobs can get into the hundreds of bidders – some people clearly aren’t qualified – but bid because it’s easy
   • 

     I agree on the sloppy descriptions. I was burned on a job because the detailed description was incorrect and the job was immensely larger. Now I ask lots of questions to clarify scope and generally don’t get a response. My attitude is to help educate these people so we can work better in the long run. Maybe I’m ambitious, but better that than jaded.
7. 

   I am considering to post jobs onto both sites oDesk and eLance. I wonder whether this kind of placement services is rather a one time biz for most of the orderers/employers because once they found sb with whom they are happy, they wouldn’t contract them over oDesk or eLance again, but commission them directly, wouldn’t they?

   Wondering,
   Thomas
   • 

     It’s really up to you. Freelance websites offer a layer of protection, at a small fee. It’s best to go direct when you’ve established a layer of trust, then you can discuss reasonable payment milestones. Also remember that when going direct, if you’re paying through any online service (eg. PayPal), they collect a fee as well. Plus, you have to manage payments, commission new contracts, etc. But if you’re hiring for long-term, it could certainly be worth it.
   • 

     well, it depends. I have my company (Agicent) listed as mobile apps development agency on Elance, guru, odesk all and have had done some work via that; at the same time I had employed few people from Elance in the past too – so I think I can have both side views.

     As a development vendor – I’ve always found jobs on these sites to be mostly low-price game; and hence since our 99 % focus is on generating customers organically (via SEOs, social media, attending conferences in the US, references etc.); having said that – clients with lesser $ of work tend to use Elance/ oDesk only for the engagement (probably because transaction fees doesn’t hurt much, and also they need to build their good buyer profile too since they keep on having $ 200- $ 1000 jobs every now then to post, and a good buyer profile brings more proposals). BUT, companies/ start-ups having some decent work and looking to pay adequately for a quality vendor company – I’ve seen they sometimes (not often) use Elance etc. as source of meeting vendors, and once they’ve made some good shortlist, they take that forward for by-passing these sites.

     As a buyer – The same thought of buyer as I mentioned above; If I’m offering a few $ jobs mostly and to a freelancing individual (who can’t be as accountable as a company largely) I prefer to keep using Elance only, even for the 50 th Job of mine; but if I have a project which involves more than thousand $ and I need a team/ company to do that via elance and if they do it fine with good accountability, I may hire them outside elance (for more flexibility at my side too, and of course to avoid bigger payment cut) and create an ongoing relationship (which is a traditional outsourcing model, and this model is still accountable for 90 % of outsourcing transaction despite we have sites like oDesk, Elance etc, since in bigger and strategic relationships, significance of Elance’s or oDesk’s payment protect/ review system etc becomes negligible.

     Feel free to ping on me if you need to discuss any more.

     Best regards
     -Sudeep
     Agicent – One of the Top 100 Mobile Apps Development Agencies
8. 

   I’ve used odesk (mostly) and freelancer countless times as i’m a acommerce guy. Im from the UK and living in the Philippines operating online retail companies back home in england and also the Philippines. When i first tried odesk i got horrible responses. BUT, to be fair, looking back it was my fault. My descriptions were bad and clearly had no effort or time applied to the job offer.

   When i started being more precise and showing that i have some technical knowledge i started getting good results. I’ve had work successfully completed on odesk for $100 that ive been qouted $2000 by independant companies. So i think these freelancing companies are awesome, ESPECIALLY FOR START UPS, you just need to learn how to use them.

   Oddly, even though i live in the Philippines, all of my employees on the freelance websites have been from india and pakistan. The Philippine workforce are often confused, seeing what americans charge and then they think they should be charging the same. Shame really.

   As for American and european designers, becareful, they for absolutely no reason play the ‘we give higher quality’ reason behind their rates which are 4-5 timers more per hour. This is usually absolutely not true. They are simply more expensive because of their cost of living, not because they are better designers. Many of them are bitter about the fact they have chosen a profession such as graphic design which has turned out not to really be a profession and something that most people around the world can learn in a month.

   I was too busy last month to install and test google conversion code on one of our sites, something that takes 30 mins. I put the job (to install conversion tracking & test it quickly) on odesk and several western freelancers qouted me $100 – $200!!!! I ended up going with a pakistani developer who did this simple job in 1 hour for $5 to full satisfaction.
   • 

     And you, sir, are part of the problem.

     I don’t know about coding and graphic design etc. but I can tell you that the cheap foreign bidders for copywriting projects (English-based writing) absolutely massacre the content they create. I’ve been hired multiple times to “fix” things that these bargain basement folks completely screwed up.

     And even if these people are the best option out there, by bidding so low they are screwing both themselves and everyone else involved in the freelancing game. A) they should be getting paid more–no matter where they live, B) their low prices convince buyers that’s the norm C) those prices convince other freelancers their rates need to be lower. It’s essentially reverse inflation.

     I started out charging $10 to $12 per hour (many times less than that) and I was glad to get those rates in the beginning but now that I’ve built a portfolio I charge $30-$50+ for most types of writing. That’s still a lot lower than I should be charging (According to all of those stuffed shirts –Bob Bly et al–that market their guidance and leadership so “helpfully” to newcomers in the industry.

     You really do get what you pay for and one day something is going to happen that will make you realize that.
     • 

       You’ve absolutely nailed everything I wanted to say. As a UK-based copywriter/scriptwriter I am tired of a) competing with $2 an hour writers who can barely spell, b) being expected to quote the same low rates, c) having to ask constant questions of companies whose job description consists of one vague sentence and d) being told that a 120,000 ghostwritten novel needs to be finished in 3 days.
       Freelancing sites need to implement some kind of quality control both to job postings and freelancer pedigrees to basically sort the wheat from the chaff. I should be earning $60-100 an hour. Instead I’m lucky to get $5 sometimes, which isn’t even minimum wage here.
   • 

     Fair comments, but not when it comes to graphic designers. Most people around the world can’t learn graphic design in a month – that’s a myth. Those people are hobbyists, not designers. When you see the real deal from a seasoned professional who knows how to keep up with trends, over the hobbyist who is creating stuff that was cool twenty years ago, you know the difference.

     I’m not a graphic designer, but I do know the difference 🙂
     • 

       +1

       Most people around the world can’t learn graphic design in a month – that’s a myth..so true.

       It takes a lot of learning and skills to be a proficient graphic designer. Not to mention that you have to become expert with the tools like Adobe Photoshop or Illustrator to produce the acceptable ‘output’ to customers usually find it hard to describe their requirements.
   • 

     Your ignorant comments do not even deserve an intelligent response from me. I’ll just say that you’re a huge part of the problem and you should be ashamed of yourself for the role you play in destroying the freelance community. There are professionals who spend years perfecting their craft (and never stop learning) that are well worth the rates they charge not only because of the quality of work, but the quality of service as well. At the rates you’re bragging about hiring people at, your expectations of what’s considered “good” must be incredibly low. I’ll never understand people like you and your backwards thinking mentality. Good luck with your “business” sir. You’re a disgrace.
     • 

       Offshore Cheappos who value capital over human labor are immoral and a disgrace to all human beings in the planet.

       Graphic design CANNOT be learned in a month. ART and CREATIVITY could never even be learned in a formal institution. One may learn the basic skills but never the eye for aesthetics which is either honed culturally or through exposure or via innate talent which no book could ever teach you.

       Shame on Offshore Cheappos. Freelancers should learn to get away from their kind as fast as they could. Not only will they make impossible demands but they really don’t value you and your life as a human being. People should simply try their best to avoid being hired by these types of people.
     • 

       Unfortunately, this is the world we developers live in. It is now a global marketplace. If he can INDEED get someone to build an entire website complete with Javascript/PHP/Perl/Flash, etc. for $25 rather than $2500 and get it with the same quality? That’s free market, bro, plain and simple. And, if he is really that genius to FIND someone who can do that then MORE POWER TO HIM. Eventually, as this market expands, and contractors get more ‘world savvy’ final contract prices will even out.
       • 

         “Eventually, as this market expands . . . contract prices will even out.”

         Or, as John Maynard Keynes’ put it, “In the long run, we are all dead”.
       • 

         Looking at the ‘free market’ aspect poses an interesting question for me. A lot of people seem to be saying that people can charge less because their living expenses are less and that it’s their behavior that is ruining the market.

         That begs the question though – why wouldn’t they want to charge more and be comparatively MUCH BETTER financially?

         So, let’s assume that oDesk and Elance creates an egalitarian global market where you can do the work regardless of where you live; just an Internet connection and a PC/Mac/whatever. What was it that drove the average price down, rather than up? Why wasn’t it viable for people from say, the Philippines, to start charging the same rates that somebody from the US would charge? If $16/day is above the minimum wage, who cares? Why wouldn’t you ask for $30?

         I mean after all, geography shouldn’t matter in this global marketplace, right?

         What would happen if oDesk or Elance anonymized the country of origin of the contractors. That would be interesting. If quality is quality no matter where it comes from, what would happen to the asking price in the market if buyers didn’t know they were dealing with someone from say, the Philippines? Put another way, are these developers making the choice to only charge $16 a day because buyers won’t spend $40 an hour on a Philippines contractor?

         (only using the Philippines as an easily recalled example here, replace with any country where living expenses are lower than ‘the west’)
         • 

           Hahaha. Now THIS is a thought we should all ponder on!

           What if Freelance websites anonymized the country of origin of the contractors?

           Thank you for thinking the thoughts you thought about. This honestly made my day!

           (Philippine-born here)
         • 

           Great point somedudethinking, I think that it’s do to the business model
           prone by large companies. There main (sometime only) perspective is exponential profit with less effort in a automize way. How do you achieve exponential profit in a automize way;
           – created a service that attract people with need (driving force)
           – created a list of rule that will always make you a non responsible
           party
           – make people depend on your service for there lividly hood
           – make it a community (one that is virtually made of stranger)
           – change the rules of the game so it becomes more competitive
           (usually to the buyer advantage)
           – give less and less real technical service by having a series pre made
           answers.

           Ebay is using this system, the above company seems to be tempted by it.
           It would be nice for a change to see more integrity on behalf of large corporation….
   • 

     This person clearly lacks any experience with what quality actually is. He’s likely writing cheap one-off garbage, not enterprise software that large organizations depend on. If he did, he would quickly see the *major* difference in quality you get for $5/hr vs $150/hr.

     Wages are a product like any other. If you buy $5 shoes don’t expect them to feel as good or last as long as $100 shoes.
   • 

     As long as you adapt when the prices stabilize worldwide due to deflation in Europe and inflation in Asia (or when there is a NWO with a brand new world currency) , you’ll be fine.

     Otherwise you will be one of those bitter entrepeneurs who thought Asia->Europe import/export due to currency mistmatches would last more than a decade 😉
   • 

     lol, Kris. Your full of crap.
   • 

     You are so right! I spend about 4 years in my study under graphic design and work graphic design industry around another 4 years. But till now stand with empty cup I think.

     An illusions or what? How astonishing! Even you don’t learn graphics program in this time period. Insult some ones profession is not a good options for debate.

     I am form Bangladesh? So what, in present day’s I don’t wish to work in Odesk or Elance because now this days it is near to impossible to get a professional work in such a low price-$3/hour.They award this sums for there bucket work not your time consume in the bidding and research (may be your kind of designer do not need research) about there jobs. Ultimately it is go under $1/hours. Now I get much more form inland work so why I do a jobs form some one who use to spend more. There is many company spend $1000 for there logo, Why? You think you do your logo in $20 or $30 and it is same result as $1000 one?

     I know there is so many provider forms my region, they provides graphic design service in low price tags. Why? They are maximum are unskilled and actually nothing to know about Graphic Design. They mesh up with colors and shapes and get relatively good review because of if some one spends not more than $2-$3/hour then what is he expected? There is some clients are known about the quality and understand what he will need to do. They are really ready to spend smart numbers.

     And you need to understand there are difference between a Real Graphic designer and your defined Graphic Designer. I wish to you visit 99designs.com then you will see what is difference between your so called Graphic Designer and a Real One.
   • 

     Graphic design can be learned in a month. Really? Because we use the latest programs, must pay for them and they update every week or so. We can’t work with people in low-overhead countries even if they are very gifted and educated because of this. You must really be churning out cr**P.
9. 

   I understand the problem you mean to solve but I’d like to know how purchasing a freelancer’s services vs. bidding on a project lead to better results if at the end of the day the customer still only wants to pay the lowest price available for the service? Also, how can I be certain that the contractor is worth the price they are quoting? References and examples alone won’t do it as these can be gamed.
   • 

     When you plan to purchase goods from Amazon, how do you know the product is worth the price? Especially when anyone can leave product reviews?

     Even when there are good intentions, any market is susceptible to unscrupulous behavior. oDesk, Elance, et. al can all be great places to work, but when you reach their scale, driving revenue is lot easier than maintaining quality. That isn’t to say you can’t find quality contractors on there, because you can.

     Right now, we (LaunchAStartup) vet every contractor who’s interested in posting a service. We retain less than 20% who apply. We won’t scale as fast as Elance, but we believe it’s a model that works in the long run.
10. 

    As someone who spent six months on odesk trying to build a resume, I concur with all that has been written here. I would only add that I find it utterly disturbing that foreign contractors are able to bid as low as $1/hour. As an American, it is impossible to compete at those levels, so therefore I question the overall agenda that is at play here. I closed my account when I found out that much of their operations are in the Philippines, a primary source of contractors who are driving down wages. Odesk is economically unpatriotic and I advocate a boycott of their website. Based on the hours spent compared to the money earned, I made not much more than $1/per hour. A complete waste of time!
    • 

      I am from Pakistan. I am a programmer. Back in mid 2011, I started at 6/hr and in a month or so started to work at 15/hr. In another couple of months I raised my rate to 20/hr and then 25/hr (this happened two years ago). During the past 30 months, I have been able to get a work of about 1000 hours.

      However, as the time moves on, I have started to notice that my rate of 25/hr is no more competitive, as I am getting less and less work. It might be due to my niche going out of favor (WPF is not a vary good choice for freelancers, I guess!). I have now started to turn my focus on HTML5 and web development using PHP.

      Overall, I think for a competitive fellow with good eye on the trends it is not very difficult to get jobs at $20-40 per hour.

      That being said, I agree that the rates are falling overall.
11. 

    I’ve been hiring on various forms of outsourcing sites for over 10 years now. Craigslist was the place to go, but now Elance, oDesk etc.

    I agree with most of the article. It’s very very tough to find someone good.

    However there is ONE thing I’d like to know. If not those sites, then WHERE does an employer go to FIND talented FREELANCERS? Which site? Or is it just personal connections? How does one find out about local skilled designers / developers, etc.
    • 

      “However there is ONE thing I’d like to know. If not those sites, then WHERE does an employer go to FIND talented FREELANCERS? Which site? Or is it just personal connections? How does one find out about local skilled designers / developers, etc.”

      It’s simple: go to Google, and type in the kind of freelance service you need and the city where you are located. For example, if you require a copywriter in Miami, type in “Miami copywriter” or “Miami copywriter freelance”, if you want to hire a single person and not a large company that will charge you fees per hour similar to that of a lawyer’s. If you want a freelancer from Texas or Washington (maybe Canada?), then the same rule applies.

      Most reputable, decent freelancers with knowledge and experience have their own websites because they need to be visible to clients. This is good for you because you can see the type of services they perform, their rates, their portfolios (or samples of what they do), etc. Best of all, being local, you can meet in person or at least have the knowledge that they are located in the same time zone as you (beneficial if you need to call them).
12. 

    Valid, Valid, and Validated. If you are worth more charge more and find the area that you can compete. Foreign freelancers do not understanding all aspects of the American day to day culture. Designers and Marketing specialist, writers, etc that have good creative skills will be able to level the playing fields for truly professional employers that are serious about their product or goods. A Pakistani who has never attended a major league baseball game has never felt the crowd or smeared mustard on his hot dog.

    That said, As an American that has not been to Pakistan or any of the “Stans” for that matter would never try to write a travel log about various aspects of a Pakistani’s life. Nor would I try to run a marathon and hope to beet a Professional runner from Ethiopia. My point is compete in arenas that your can surface as a competent freelancer at the value you expect and deserve. They say that you only earn what you think you are worth.

    Cheers and good luck!
    • 

      Well said!
13. 

    Elance is not good comply thy run with my money and closed my account without any resign i didn’t like Elance now who are run with money in short thy are theft thy only available on net for stolen money of ever new user. personally i advise no one work with elance thy are big fish available on web who rune with with money of new user how start a account on elance. if you mail elance about it and request for reactive your account thy didnt do that and give a region below:

    Hello Rahul,

    During a review of your account, we determined that you are not meeting the minimum standards for our community with regards to managing job opportunities and active projects. Specifically, the number of proposals you have submitted without job award falls under our minimum requirements.

    After a full review of your account closure response, we unfortunately will not be able to reinstate your account. You do have access to withdraw your current funds and complete any open jobs.

    Regards,
    Elance Trust & Safety

    I just advise you about it to know about elance realty. how thy run with money.
    • 

      I’m sorry to say this Rahul, I’m just being honest. Your poor use of grammar goes a long way in explaining why your account got suspended or deleted.
      • 

        I think this is Borat in disguise.
    • 

      Rahul,

      Elance did the same thing to me. No explanation, I had three jobs I was working on and they just shut my account down! Luckily, the three job owners also had accounts with oDesk and they rehired me through oDesk (and they left Elance 🙂 . I have most success with oDesk. My niche is Administrative and I do get a lot of work. My hourly rate is $15 per hour and I have logged over 3500 hours in less than one year. Sadly, I just found out oDesk and Elance are going to be merging sometime this year, yikes! I highly recommend avoiding Elance. Best of luck to you from NY!
    • 

      They didn’t “run with your money”….you clearly aren’t fluent in English but their letter specifically says that you can remove your funds. Yes, they shut down your account but did not take your money. You should get someone to translate this for you and to help you understand how to remove any monies left in your account.
14. 

    I agree , having worked on Odesk and Elance both as a developer and as a business user I have seen both sides of this coin. As a developer I have been able to keep my clients happy the feedback has always been good which probably explains why I havent been able to find decent developers on Odesk. My expectations relect the standard I set for myself when I am a developer and so far Odesk hasnt delivered. However Elance is three for three. The only problem I have with Elance is it gets too complicated to manage work i.e post jobs , hire people or pay them.
15. 

    I think this “article” is slightly bias, no? Elance and Odesk offer the same risks and hassles as any other employment. Employees want to be paid what they deserve and have their work appreciated for its merits, and employers want as much as they can get for as little costs as humanly possible. I’ve used Elance and Odesk and found the same issues with them as I have found with any other employer.

    I found that what Oliver said is the biggest hurdle with obtaining work on these sites. Wanting cheap labor has universal appeal but $1 in America is not the same as it is in India. I’m not trying to jack up my wages to keep any “lifestyle”, I’m using this site to try to get money to eat and $1 isnt going to cut it. The only plus side to this is that lots of American clients on there want American freelancers and are willing to pay as such. The same goes for employers from other countries.

    I am not an IT professional, I’m more of the writing and admin type of freelancer so, of course, some of the things said here dont apply to me. Just like with any other hiring type situation, competition is stiff and everyone is trying to get over. It’s a crap shoot whether you do this on Elance, or in the corporate world.
16. 

    I have employed, and tried to employ on oDesk for multiple jobs, and I found this article instructive, though to those freelancers who complain about low bidders, let me provide some perspective.

    Realize that the reason I am looking for people on oDesk is because I believe that my own time is more valuable than what I am willing to pay. In addition, in the US or UK, the competition for the top people is overwhelming. I am hoping to find exceptional people who live in environments that don’t offer them the same opportunities that I can. In theory, I should be able to find brighter people than I can find locally. Thus, I am likely to ignore bids for ridiculously low sums because it isn’t worth wasting my time on them. That said, there is real global competition in this process, and it becomes a tradeoff to working with someone local vs the lower cost of working with someone far away. As a reference, I normally expect the price/hr should be somewhat higher than the amount they would earn in their field locally to them. That seems fair is it is a short term commitment.

    The end result is that I ignore both ridiculously low and high bids. Price is not the ONLY factor. For reason’s I’ve explained, it isn’t even the 1st factor. But it is a factor.

    My frustration comes from how often after you hire someone, they simply don’t show up. This has happened to me countless times. I wish I knew why. I’ve found a few great individuals to work with, but this annoyance of irresponsible bidders makes it far less appealing.

    Further on that point, I have specified very specific requirements such as “previous experience passing function calls between C++ and Excel” and I will even include a sentence saying “if you have not done this, please do not apply as it is more difficult than would appear”. People still lie. People still send bids saying “I have analyzed your requirements, and we can build your website.” I.E., they aren’t even reading my text. These are my complaints that I have been willing to put up with, because the prize of smart people working on my project for a good (local) wage is still compelling.
17. 

    I came across this blog looking for good tips for hiring writers and I felt I had to say something.

    I mostly use Elance and I usually have very positive experience with freelancers there.

    In my opinion, as long as you know how to choose the right people and how to communicate with them, those sites are absolutely fine.

    There are a few things I always do to make sure I find the right freelancers:

    1. I write very specific job descriptions. If you don’t know what you want, how can you expect freelancers to do what you want?

    2. In the description, I always say what I want the bidders to write in the proposals. In this way, it’s very easy to filter out those who don’t read the description. It’s also very useful to see if somebody pays attention to the details.

    3. I usually give them a very small assignment before hiring them. I find this critically important, especially when you hire programmers. When I hire programmers, I usually give them timed tests.

    I think it’s fair to say that I had some bad experience too but it was always when I didn’t follow the things I described above.
    • 

      Your number 2 in that list is a pet peeve of a lot of good freelancers. If you assume we don’t pay attention right off the bat, you’re not someone we want to work with. I understand why you do it, but trust me when I tell you that a lot of great freelancers are hitting the back button when they see that.
      • 

        Actually, I’m a freelance writer and I think #2 is a good thing. I really would like to know what is expected in the assignment so that I get a good idea if it’s a fit for me and be able to tailor my response accordingly. I don’t see it as an assumption that we don’t pay attention, rather as an attempt to hire someone who does and is qualified.
        • 

          Absolutely. I’d have to agree that #2 is a great idea! Most people barely read the descriptions or instructions. I feel it helps filter out the ones who have no attention to detail vs the ones who do = they actually care about your post and are serious about applying enough to read through it. Unlike most whp act like bots and copy paste their applications. It’s lazy and unethical.

          So thank you and to everyone else like you for giving clear instructions. Makes the freelancers job less frustrating than having to deal with jobs that aren’t specific or clear about what they need.

          “The art of memory is the art of attention.”
      • 

        Totally agree. As a freelancer, when I see ads that say “include the phrase ‘dirty fish’ in your bid so I know you’ve read the whole thing” I actually stop reading. It tells me that the client is already expecting a low calibre of respondent, which in turn makes me doubt his own calibre as employer. I feel patronized enough by companies who say their budget for having a movie script written is $50, without having to deal with others who seem to think all writers are lackadaisical morons.
        • 

          Of course they’re expecting a low caliber of respondent! That’s a running theme of this whole discussion.

          If you’re really good, and competing in a marketplace with folks that aren’t, don’t be offended when a buyer is looking to find folks like you by weeding out the clowns. If you DO take offense, it comes off to a buyer as being a diva. On second thought, maybe filtering out divas is another good reason to put this in my bids.
    • 

      As a developer, #2 really irritates me. I can solve any problem, and I get paid well to solve some very big ones: but I don’t always have the exact answer in my head at any given moment, and being put under the gun of a timed test blasts my adrenaline and makes my brain work less efficiently. And it pisses me off. A guaranteed way to reduce someone’s IQ by 30 points in 10 seconds is to turn on a timer.

      “Calculate the sum of powers of three given a random number of inputted integers, and you have exactly three minutes to do it. GO!” … “I don’t know, fuck you!” When the pressure’s off, the answer always comes in under three minutes, of course.

      I bet you’ve turned away some really good candidates who simply weren’t great test-takers.
18. 

    Looking at the job and provider postings, I’m concerned about quality on these sites. A graphics designer in the industry is going to have no less than a 2 year computer science degree in graphic design. Web developers, the same. I am a designer, an instructional designer. The process to design quality instruction is a science. It’s not a hit or miss attempt. I perform the job task analysis, determine appropriate interventions, design how a lesson is constructed and how the content is presented. I don’t have time to make the graphics and program it as well. Just because you know photo shop does not make you a graphic artist. Just like knowing how to write well doesn’t make you an instructional designer.
19. 

    Hi, and thanks for a great article. Having worked as a freelancer on Elance for almost a year, I second almost every point that was made. The general picture about freelancers and clients doing a dance to try to figure out what’s really needed for a job–that has been my experience too. I’ve also been dismayed at how many low-quality providers are there, bidding way too low, and clogging up the system. It gives the impression that excellent work can be had for peanuts.

    I do disagree, however, with the suggestion one of your sources made to throw out every bid that comes in during the first hour. I often bid early on jobs, and I never submit a boilerplate proposal. My thinking has been to make a good first impression before the rest of the pack.
    • 

      Agreed. I tend to bid fast. It’s not that I rush it either, but and hour is a long time. Keep in mind the project listing as sorted by time so when we open it we get just posted projects the first, and we get invitations directly to our mail. Maybe what he says is true, but it would apply to the first 5 minutes for bot/scripted responses.
20. 

    I am new to these sites but I am amazed what people will bid on. Job descriptions that are so vague you have no idea what the job entails. I am of the opinion that many job postings never actually happen, they are just looking at the market for budget or to use a low price to negotiate with a local vendor.

    That said I have gotten some low paying jobs from these sites. My proposals are clearly written with terms, descriptions, and client responsibilities. This is essential as I already had a client ask to do something more then agreed and I simply replied that was not in my proposal and anything outside of that would be additional cost.

    I have hired a freelancer through a site to do some translation work. They had a good rating and delivered the work at the expected time and without issue. So there can be success stories.

    I do have a part of my proposal that is boiler plate, it begins “I am not the lowest price” I sell value, if its only about cost then you are not a client I want to pursue.
21. 

    Spot on guys. Although there’s already sites like yours. Task Army comes to mind. I don’t see how you guys are different. If you are, my bad.
22. 

    Odesk and Elance, I don’t think they are bad. I have a small business and sometimes I outsource and then do some contracts on these two sites. In my opinion, I think it depends on an individual. As an individual, you’ve to be honest. For instance, there is a project which requires the skills of web designer, you know that you’re not a designer but you apply for that job thinking that you can research and do the job while the client wait for you? If you do the job badly, the client will get pissed and give you a bad review. My main place is elance and most of the people I work with are happy with my work even contact me for subsequent jobs without posting it. I don’t spend so much time on these sites because of my offline job but whenever I’m there I always get job because I’m honest and tell the truth always. I don’t do pleasing, I tell each client the truth, if what the client requires from the job is unrealistic, i tell them you can’t do that with that info. and before you can do that you’ve to be well versed in your field. I am statistician and for that I can tell everyone that when it comes to research, I am also a master in my small corner. So master your profession and be bold to tell clients the truth and they will be happy to work with you.
23. 

    This is one of the few times I read an article and the comments in entirety. Nice and very informative post I have to say.

    After reading the article and the comments, I felt the itch to comment because i’m a freelancer myself and has been in this line for three years running now. I am from the Philippines and yes, I use odesk mainly although I also have accounts with Freelancer, Elance, Guru, and Grenlight articles.

    In my almost three years with Odesk, I have only 14 feedback to show. Yes, that few because first, I could not stomach the rates being offered to writers by most principals. Second, I earned the trust and confidence of a a couple of principals and I now write for them directly so I have my hands full of assignments most of the time. This somehow allowed me to choose easy jobs in Odesk during my spare time.

    Why rates are going down is basically because of “supply and demand.” There are now a lot of new freelancers wanting get a job online. A principal could easily get as many as 70 applicants for a job that he/she posted. Out of the 70, there could be a few really good contractors fit for the job who at the same time are willing to do it for loose change. I know this because I also have an employer account with Odesk.

    It is already a given that North American contractors have almost no chance to get decent rates from Odesk and other platforms. Why? because even contractors from the Philippines, India, and Pakistan could not get a decent rate from Odesk and others. Nobody from India would be happy with $1 per 500 words article and this is also true in Pakistan and the Philippines. But $1 to $3 is the going rate so what can a freelancer do?

    Why there are still contractors applying for such pittance? Because most principals want to pay as little as possible. That’s the reason why they went online looking to outsource their job requirement in the first place. They don’t go online to look for local contractors actually because if that is the intention, they can do it using local sources and there are plenty of such sources I’m sure.

    They went to Odesk because they know that by using a foreign contractor they can save on costs. If a native speaker is willing to accept a low rate, well and good but if not, its also okay because there are others that can do the job.

    It is a dog eat dog environment when it comes to working online.I also used the forum of odesk writing and trying to convince contractors not to accept peanuts for their work. But although there are a lot of contractors who agreed with me, still the the rock bottom rates continue. Offers actually go for as low as $5 for ten articles of 500 words each. When I checked out of curiosity, I saw many applicants applying for the job mostly from Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, and also Philippines. So what can I do but to move on and just give it a smirking laugh.
    • 

      DON’T BLAME THE FREELANCERS.
      If no Providers are looking at saving costs (those $1-$7.hourly / <$300 IT projects, etc) then all workers (from US, Euro, Afri, Asian, etc) will be happy!
      Blame those Providers (by exploitation) for being abusively cheap to all!
      ALL bidding "cheapos" die away if Providers remain ethical and pays good! Thus preserving the presence of quality freelancers.
      ———-
      On the otherhand, if you are in a business or a lazy employer (categorically then is Provider in this discussion) then who can blame you for looking ways to save on costs by all means…?! ETHICS that is.

      WELCOME to globalization EVERYONE! To some it's "big Bucks," to others it "wtf it Sucks" depending on the country.

      -by someone from the orient here

24. Pingback: Fiverr ,learn By Full Lesson | 7Wins.eu

25. 

    While I agree with most of what’s been written here, I don’t think it’s quite as black and white as you say.

    If you’re really tight on the criteria on which you will bid and have a great portfolio (I’m a writer) then you’ll get work.

    And if you know how to sell yourself effectively in the proposal then you’ll be able to get a half decent rate. I currently sit at US$25 for a 500 word article and I’m getting plenty of work, with a lot of it being repeat stuff.

    Elance can work.. but it’s a grind for sure.

    John
    • 

      Wow. I’ve been working as a freelance writer for nearly a decade now. I’ve never ventured into the world of freelance sites like Elance or oDesk, and I guess I’m glad I didn’t. $25 for a 500-word article? That comes out to 5 cents a word! No one who can sell themselves and can write a decent sentence should have to work for those slave wages. John, you can do better, and I sincerely hope you look into other markets. From what little you posted here, you seem like a good writer. If you can sell yourself effectively as you say, stop working for peanuts.
26. 

    Just to throw my two cents in. I WOULD NEVER HIRE ELANCE FOR ANYTHING!
    Why?
    I was handed a job when it was “near complete” by my boss. The job was a side project he hired elance to do using typo3. I came in near the end and don’t know typo3. Trying to learn it with what i was given made things worse. It wasn’t until he hired a German from a Typo3 company to give me some pointers that I began to understand it.

    Even now i’m still trying to clean up the mess! It’s very obvious at least 5 different coders of 5 different levels of experience worked on this. Only one seemed to understand Typo3, the rest obviously had no clue and threw in more band-aids and popsicle sticks then you’ll find in a daycare.

    The php code that was done is beyond ugly as it showed at least 3 different styles, of 3 different skill levels. One was very obviously a complete beginner taking advice from someone and getting it horribly wrong. Who writes a 472 line if statement? or a 3160 line switch statement?!!!

    This has by far been one of the worst clean ups I’ve preformed in my 6 years professional and 20+ years personal experience. And I’ve cleaned up some whoppers before.

    I could go on for another 40 page essay on how bad it is, but for now i’ll cut it back down to, quite simply, DO NOT USE ELANCE! As for oDesk, I have no idea, tho i assume it would probably be the same.
27. 

    As someone who has done over 425 projects on elance I would like to bring out some points. The number of providers have increased drastically as they have allowed 40 free connects (as compared to 3 free connects around 3 years back). The minimum hourly rate is lowered from USD 5 to USD 3. Overall, I have observed that when you make a bid with near USD 15/hr you face rejection as when a client sees almost 50 bids in the range of USD 1-5 he would not be willing to pay USD 15. Most of the contractors from Indian subcontinent (I am also from India for that matter) and Philippines are not well versed, they just bid for the sake of bidding even if they cannot complete the job. Overall, in the last couple of years I have see the standards and rates on elance going down and it will continue this way if elance does not adopt new ways to protect providers who are quality oriented but charge a bit high.
28. 

    Unfortunately, it appears the companies/people who post the jobs on the online communities come from the vision that, “Freelancers are a dime-a-dozen”, especially when it comes to masses like “writers”, “coders”, and other such disciplines. It’s like the factory worker who loses his job, then goes out and buys a tool belt, and now he’s suddenly a freelance construction guy. It just doesn’t work that way – but many of those low wage bottom feeders on these sites try to get away with it.

    In reality, I feel that REAL freelancers who know what they are doing actually practice their craft and just got sick and tired of working as an employee at an unrespectful company. Or the company got rid of people in order to save money and dumped all the responsibilities on the poor souls who are still there. 🙂

    On the other hand, I’ve seen some profiles on both Elance and Odesk where people had minimum wage requirements of over $100/hr for marketing programs, business analysis, and corporate accounting — and they have plenty of jobs and tens of thousands of dollars recorded. Maybe it’s because those positions are more specialized and those positions are not viewed as “a dime-a-dozen”. But still, true technical writers and programming coders should be given the same recognition if they are legitimate — at least in my mind.

    Thank you for your time.

    ~~ Mike ~~
    • 

      Spot on Mike – 100% agree.
29. 

    Elance, Odesk etc. can do an OK job when projects are tangible like designing a logo or website. However, for jobs like Statistical analysis or predictive analytics where both parties need abstract thinking, they have hard time to deliver (IMHO). That is why we created Statlance to solve that problem.

30. Pingback: When Clients and Freelancers Collide | Chris Hilbig.com - BETA edition

31. 

    Obviously you get what you pay for. So when you (i.e., tightwad US-based companies) outsource a $2000 project overseas for $100 or less, I’ll be happy to take that extra $1900 when you come looking for a professional to actually get the job done.

32. Trackback: dortgurtgiretl

33. 

    I am an experienced copywriter and creative director from Chandigarh/Delhi, India. Having worked for the biggest names in Advertising industry and media, I am presently into different projects.
    I would wish to work for any agency in USA or any english speaking country. Alternately, online jobs are welcome where payments are assured. Can I expect help from you in this regard please?
    With best of regards,
    Sharman
34. 

    I have 20+ years as an IT recruiter and from graduate level to senior enterprise architects, project managers, etc, etc. So I have experience which is atypical to the majority of hirers on Odesk.

    When recruiting a developer recently I hired an Indian national however, I very nearly hired a US national charging x6 the amount because his communication skills were excellent. However, I decided with 20+ years IT recruitment experience I would have the ability to select the right person (in India) for the job. Without my experience I would have hired the US national.

    I have then put energy into building the professional relationship with developer I hired and since hired an SEO Specialist and done likewise with him. I’m pretty happy with the results I am getting and my contractors know I respond to their needs as a high priority.

    At the same time, this article hits the nail on the head. Most hirers don’t know what they want and their first step as in any IT project should be to get a Business Analyst to elicit the requirements. However, most hirer’s probably either don’t know or have the experience to value this work. Hence the quality of job specs listed on odesk, freelancer, elance etc are mostly inarticulate verb-age.

    I am not convinced of that the premise of the new service will result in anything different from the established listings on odesk, freelancer, elance because the issue is a lack of education, experience and a lack of ability or commitment to document requirements. It’s a great ideal but will it create a behavourial change?
    • 

      way to sell out your own profession.

35. Trackback: PMO8EL5kNL

36. 

    As Gene said above, where does an employer find freelancers? I’ve hired at Elance for about 7 different jobs. The only reason I went to them over odesk was because a friend had a positive experience hiring there.

    Below are a few rules I adhered to when looking for a freelancer:

    1. I start with a keyword search on the freelancers. I use the buzz words based on the project; jquery, json, logo, facebook profile, twitter profile, ios, android, responsive design, map, etc. You’d be surprised how this limits the competition. Most freelancer’s don’t put an ongoing effort into their keywords.

    2. I never do open bids, only private invitations, based on my keyword search results. I then go through their portfolios. One time I accidentally put out a job bid, that went public. The person I hired turned out not to be very good. I blame myself, since I should have quizzed him more about that topic. This one experience only affirmed my private invitations only rule, which has worked for me on every job.

    3. I also only do a fixed price. My mobile app project ran into additional costs, but that was because I’d request another feature beyond the original design. An hourly figure makes me feel out of control. On Elance I ask what will this cost to do the job, when the invitation is sent. I guess if the price was really high compared to the other responders I might pass on that freelancer.

    4. I only like hiring individuals and not a big company. I like knowing who is doing the job. I may bend a little on this in the future.

    Reading all of these comments really gives me a different perspective on freelancers. If you are on Elance, please check your keywords.

    Thank you, for all the fine work you do.

    Pat
37. 

    “As a rule, you can toss every response you get in the first hour. As you’ve noticed, there are tons on people on those sites who send out the same canned proposal to every single listing.”

    I hope people don’t take this advice to heart. I try to be first on the boat for bids so that the contractor will see my reply before it’s buried under 40 more proposals. The jobs I bid on usually end up with 40 to 50 proposals total, and we all know most contractors will check 20 or so.

    Regardless, most of the proposal is really about the user’s portfolio and reputation. The proposal itself just has to sound competent.

    So please don’t throw out the first hour of proposals. I worked hard on mine and Elance lists jobs chronologically, from newest to oldest, so that’s the order I bid in.
38. 

    It really depends on the contractor. I started with odesk offering $1/hour jobs. I was happy earning $20/month. i was doing book covers for $2 each… I took jobs that takes me 2 days to finish because of the requirements but only earned $5 and i was happy because I understood that its not always going to be like that. PLUS i truly love what i do. How lucky was my previous clients… and I DID NOT DO A CRAPPY JOB. I was BUILDING MY PORTFOLIO during that time and I was focused on doing a really really great job so i can have a clientele and a good reputation… and i understood that 70% of my future jobs would be from referrals. I built my way up… now I charge $16/hour on book formatting and covers. It took me almost 2 years to go from $1/hour to $16/hour. Living in the Philippines with low standard of living makes me considerably rich.

    Even if you say that most contractor offer low prices and clients don’t know what they want, hence they both get crappy deals… i think this is a SECTION or a GROUP of users of the site because in my experience, even if I offer a low price for a job, some clients would take someone charging waaaaay higher. I don’t exactly know the mentality of the client. Probably he thinks that higher bid means the contractor is a “pro” but when i check out their portfolio, I don’t see anything special at all but my portfolio wasn’t as strong but I was capable of the same output. So now with a strong portfolio, I don’t even apply for jobs. People offer me jobs. I sometimes have to decline.

    It’s also true that some clients of mine had such a horrible experience with odesk contractors… really really bad graphics that have seemed to be done using MS WORD. Really laughable stuff. And I am thankful to those people because once these clients find someone like me who is dependable, responsive, pretty good (LOL), they never let you go.

    I take care of my clients, so they refer friends to me… I am now part of odesk’s top 10% contractors because I had a plan and I really love what I do…
39. 

    (Sorry for the impersonal writing… I’m on a beach right now living the 8 hour work work)

    Hi,

    My name is Aaron, and I’m from Vancouver Canada.

    Two years ago I took my credit card and the knowledge I had from my sisters very successful recruitment company and created an account on Odesk.

    Then I found many internet-retarded business owners that needed things like websites, magazine ads, Tshirts, business cards, etc etc.

    After that, I looked on Odesk and successfully found many contractors that could do these jobs at a very minimum cost.

    Win win situation.

    The problem with oDesk and eLance are the companies posting jobs. You guys don’t know how to look. You use the same attitude for find a person, as you do coming up with a low ball douchbag offer.

    Do your research , find out the average wage of those professionals in the country you are trying to source from. Add the 10% odesk fee. That should be the minimum offered for the task you want to hire for. Don’t be a lowball douchebag…..

    If you want quality work ,you need to pay a little more for quality people. Or find new Contractors with great portfolios and zero hours logged on oDesk: take advantage of the fact that they dont have any reviews yet. Lowball those guys, but you better make sure you give them an amazing review (make sure it’s clear and precise), and MAKE SURE IT’S HONEST.

    My Odesk account is currently billed out $6000USD for two years of business that has generated me approx $26,000USD. And I’m STILL saving my clients money on their projects.

    I am a firm believer in empowering the hird world. So I give praise to websites like elance and odesk.
40. 

    It is not as simple as you say it is. There are guidelines which are simple to follow though – in finding the right freelancers. It might sound racist, but if you decline all – ALL – Indian and Pakistani bids on your job, you will be left with an easy to manage number of proposals from relatively civilized countries. I would recommend hiring someone from Eastern Europe – of – as I have been doing recently – from the United States (it is much more expensive, but it gets the job done).
    • 

      This is outright racist and a disrespect to humanity. I am from Pakistan. I have worked for American and EU companies over the past couple of years. A couple of them were so happy with me that they wanted me to come to their places to become their permanent employee. It did not happen as I am not yet ready to leave my place; but you see my point.

      Please stop being racist. There are more than 1.4 BILLION people living in India and Pakistan and we are just as human (one can prove that in LAB!).
41. 

    To all the Ladies and Gentlemen here who are respected in their respective fields of expertise, all of you have a point. I would like to share my opinion about the topic that \you will never win in this battle between Odesk and Elance\.

    It’s not about which site offers good pay to talented contractors and vice versa but rather how you use these tools to land on the job that you want and find someone who can perform the job for you. I firmly believe that these sites were founded for a good reason however, there are some people who does crap over this great avenue of opportunity.

    I am a 5 year licensed professional turned freelancer who went out of the corporate rat race and went to virtual freelance jobs in both Odesk and Elance hoping to find a decent employer that values quality over money. Recognizes my skills sets and able to fairly give a decent fee, unless this is a volunteerism setting, why not, I will offer my services 0 cents but this is not the case.

    What I obsereved in this \battle arena\ is that all sides, the employer, the contractor and the site, have their own shortcomings. This is addressed to people who does not respect other peoples dignity and worth ethics. On the other hand, high hand salute to the few people I’ve known who had a successfull long-term (3+ years & counting) business relationships over these sites.

    Corporate, freelance or virtual, it does not matter. What matters is how you RESPECT other people and be RESPECTED in return. And let us accept the fact that we are still in this rat race winning each battle. Let us not blame each other but rather take full responsibility in our actions.

    For Elance, Odesk and other freelance site, maybe they could develop more on their screening process to keep things in balance, since they are the foundation where the balance beam is placed for the employer and freelancer. Not that I am saying they are not doing anything about it but maybe they will be able to formulate a better system for both, for sure they are looking at it right now.

    For some of the employers who are so ever busy, looking for the right person for their team and most in a tight budget, please…please…have the decency to provide what is needed from you. If other employer on your same level or even lower could provide those things from proper job description posting to fair compensation and trainings, I don’t see any reason why you can’t. Unless you think, that freelancers are beggar bots that would take even bread crumbs for a pay to feed 5 or more households, then, PLEASE…step out, you are just making this green pasture a dumping site.

    And to my fellow freelancers, be it beginners or experts, who values the work ethics, don’t let anyone degrade you. It’s easier said than done but let’s think of it this way. You won’t like being bullied at school right? So you fight back to those big bad bullies. And if you are the type of freelancer that would take anything, like way cents low, well THINK! THINK HARDER! Find a place, not here.

    With that said, on a lighter note (I think)….why not build a separate site for employers and freelancer that would agree on bread crumb level of payment, dishonesty and uncertain job decription and another site for both professional employers and freelancer who RESPECT each other only? 🙂 Maybe, in that way, we will win in our battles 🙂

    We are HUMAN BEINGS and let us act as one. RESPECT and everything follows.
42. 

    +1 on ziptask. Great bridging of the gap.
43. 

    We’ve had great success getting IT development work completed on Elance. We’ve met some great developers and learned a lot from them. Some of these freelancers had $0 job history when we contracted them.

    IMO, the key is having an in house developer spec the job and work with the Elance Contractor. Agreed that the job description must be very clear and detailed. It’s also important to dialog first and get confirmation that they can really do the job. If you know the technology, you’ll know if they are not legit.

    I think we can get more done with a $20k Elance budget that we can get from $200k for two FTEs sitting in office space w/benefits waiting for work.
44. 

    Unlike most of the other commentors, I am a fan of freelance sites. They appeal to my sense of equity (helping out someone living in far more difficult conditions than I), and I’ve received some good product (LOL, and also some really bad stuff, but I would find that locally as well).

    I start out all of my well-articulate job descriptions, with \please read the entire brief BEFORE responding,\ and I conclude with \send me no more than X samples of relevant work, your hourly rate, and your estimate as to how long this job will take.\ The inability of many to follow these simple instructions, earns them an immediate decline (after a somewhat sarcastic response of \My apologies, I am only considering those able to read job descriptions at this time.\).

    From those that do read and respond appropriately, I usually try to make a quick decision so that I am not wasting time of authentic service providers. As soon as I have 2-3 reasonable responses, with some talent, I accept one. Communication will generally be a challenge, but I find that through the professional and friendly tone of my communication and by asking them to use my first name, and not \sir,\ I often am able to create an environment where I can get from them the best work they are able to produce.

    Another important step is creating milestones. I generally ask to see some work product after no more than four hours. If they are completely off track, I may re-direct them to key points of the brief, and I give them another hour to make changes. However, if they are simply veering away from my vision, I give them another four hours, and clearer instructions as to tone, look, and feel. I cancel jobs, and leave realistic feedback, if no progress has been made, but if we are heading in the right direction, I create more significant milestones, and ask them to take some responsibility in managing their time and work product. I generally am happy with the work I get in the end, and believe the freelancer enjoys his/her work because they are given some autonomy after earning it.

    This can be a time-consuming process, but it can also be quite rewarding. I have occasionally been told by freelancers, that I have treated them with more respect and trust than most/all of their other employers.

    So . . . I believe that if you know what you want, write a clear job specification and manage the process, you can help make a difference in someone’s life, and get some very good work product at a reasonable expense. If your goal is to exploit an impoverished workforce, I’m guessing you’ll come up short.
45. 

    Interesting to read everyone’s experiences. I’ve bidded for hundreds of jobs on odesk and never got a thing. I don’t hold much hope for getting any valuable jobs from it. By comparison, I’m working hard to network in real time locally where I live (Australia) which has netted me a great deal of work. I’d love to see oDesk and other sites thrive but I don’t think they work well, unless, as other have said, you’re willing to charge very low rates. I also see lots of aggressive job postings which make you feel very despondent – one last week said, “Don’t bother quoting more than $0.75 an hour…blah blah”. Not good!
46. 

    I have a account on Odesk and elance. I need more information.
    Thanks
47. 

    I am finding Odesk experience better than many other companies.
48. 

    Hi,

    Thanks for this article and the various comments on it. I spent time and effort putting together profiles on elance, freelancer and Guru when my company suffered multiple blows due to the recent recession(s). Part of my reason for joining these sites was because a friend managed to start a pretty regular and lucrative freelance writing career through them, and I thought it might be a good way to pick up some artworking/simple design jobs to tide me over as I develop some more serious and regular clients.

    Maybe it works for writers but for me as a designer, It’s a mistake. Firstly I’m based in the UK and cannot compete with the prices, especially after commission and currency conversions. Worse still, lots of the potential ‘clients’ are wanting jobs for less than $50 but expect you to submit concepts – a creative pitch for a job that ultimately will probably pay less than £30? I write every pitch properly and supply genuine portfolio examples, but it’s a total waste of time and effort, you don’t even get the benefit of constructive criticism or feedback. You have no idea what the winning pitch might have consisted of.

    I think people spending real money and wanting to build real relationships on Elance are using people who already have very established profiles – which is fair enough. But really, if you’re looking to work regularly with a designer, do some research, find the right person, get to know them and work together. There’s not need to shovel a cut of your budget into an agency which is literally just acting as a middle man. There is no sense in paying that commission after the first job.

    Like reverse auctions, these sites lower the standard of work at best and lowers the value of the industry at worst. Plus it’s really really bad for motivation. I’m going to close down all my accounts because they’re just a miserable distraction, when my time could be spent on building real relationships and doing quality creative work that people will actually value.

    Perhaps that’s where my first mistake was – I want to build valuable and mutually satisfying relationships, but the freelance websites seemed to have fostered cultures where the supplier (which is the only perspective I can offer) is immediately set on the back foot.

    Hmm, anyway, goo luck to everyone who’s made it work for them – but I think on currency alone, I can’t make it work.
49. 

    Nice insights, please allow me to share my meandering experience as a contractor. I started working at Odesk at $5/hour, I tired $2.5/hour not because I bid for it but because that was the only amount the employer could afford. right now, my rate is ranging from $10-$15/hour and I have already a job at elance as well. I can hardly express my gratitude (for the lack of the better word)having that convenience in working from your home/anywhere. Most of all building a great portfolio and online reputation.

    I am living here in the Philippines and I earn the same salary if not more than as those managers or others with higher positions working locally but it wasnt an easy way. its very hard for us, contractors to prove our worth for those employers who are in the other side of the planet but when we get a chance (generally speaking) we try to go beyond their expectations. Whether the project is big or small, we need to empress our clients because one negative feedback will quickly ruin our entire profile in which it took a hard time for us to build.
50. 

    I’ve been working with ODesk for about 5 years. What all of us have to recognize is that notions and legalities regarding intellectual property, journalism, and publishing are in a tumultuous period of evolution. Elance and ODesk are part of that and have been emerging as the leaders.
    They represent the new face of hiring in general, not just freelance IT, Design and Writing. As a Scenic Artist by trade, staffing agencies are de rigor for brick and mortar jobs,as well. EVERYTHING is being done by contract, rather than ’employment’.
    My experience with the two sites has been that it was simpler to get hired on ODesk. And thus, I have built my history there and consequently, gotten more jobs.
    My original rate for writing and editing on ODesk was $12 per hour. It is now $20…and I get it. I simply do not accept jobs that pay less. The work WILL be devalued if we contribute to that. My rate is enough money for me, here in the US, and I’m happy if I’m making that. I make no bones about replying to an employer that offer ridiculously low rates that they should be willing to pay at least what they pay their yard guys.
    This is a difficult time for publishing of any kind…and, yes, we are competing with people that will work for chicken feed. US companies are particularly cheap. But what they find when they hire ‘overseas’ workers, is that there are so many misunderstandings with instructions and agreements, that they are better off paying a bit more and wasting less time.
    I recently was operating in a recruitment capacity for an ODesk employer. It’s pretty easy to spot a boiler plate response from the slug in applications. Discarded immediately. A considered response and consistent followup from the applicants was the deciding factor. I hired a mid-range Indian developer for a trial with mixed results. Got the job done, but it took longer than expected with some language related misunderstandings. Next time I will make better efforts to ensure that language won’t be a problem.
    I think we all have to be patient with these new means of competing and working in this global market. The beauty of it is that WE have the capacity and potential for SHAPING it. Establish some ethics and value for your work and stick to them. You might not get rich or famous, but you just might make a decent living doing what you’re good at. As Kurt Vonnegut might ask, \If that isn’t nice, what is?\
51. 

    To hire the draftsmen I needed, I took an recent set of pdf plans and posted it as a job. Then, I hired 7 people and told them I needed it in 3 days. Three of them achieved the quality I needed. The first, an American, got hired full time after the first job. The second, a Ukrainian, fell ill and is currently hospitalized, though I’m sure to use him again. The third, from the Philippines, is very good. I’ve hired him several times.
    Initial investment: $300.
    Savings over recent jobs: $900
    Yes, I had to train up the Filipino subcontractor. Now, I pay him a little more than what his other clients pay. And, I push for my projects to be completed first. I pay immediately, as soon as project is delivered.
    And, I also receive the CAD drawings, something an American drafter would never give.
    It has been a valuable decision.
    • 

      All of these websites have contracts that massively benefit the employer, and they all require that the contractor turn over all the IP upon payment.
52. 

    KRIS is weary wrong it really made me angry reading his post!
    Design is learned for years, I have 4 years of design school, 5 years of Fine Art Academy, 3 years of Post graduate studies. And that helped me to have one of first profiles among others when you type in book cover design on O desk.
    It allowed me to double my income (my country has same average pay of 12-20 usd per day as in Philippines) . Also I get offer every day for jobs at Odesk. When I got overwhelmed by work, I wanted to hire someone from Odesk to share work with. I looked for persons who charge less then me and I wanted to cry how poor their design skills were. Over 35000 profiles. I found one average and professional person from India only one over so many of them. Then I browsed more and finally when I found one which works were same and some better then mine I couldn’t hire him because he charges 50usd per hour and he is from US. I do not want to judge but people from Asia have weary poor guilty of design. Even their prices are great for employer. At the end I hired my colleague from Academy, I do not earn anything hiring her but at least I deliver excellent design to client for affordable price (I work 20usd per hour) and keep them coming back.
    I even accpet to work some deigns cheaply when I have time, because it is hard for me to reject design (I am specialized in book design and that is my passion), in my country is almost impossible to find job as designer due of 60% unemployment, and I am happy that I have chance to work what I love from home. For example I would work some boring job in office for 20 usd -30 usd per day, and for 30usd I am cozy in my home and working on art even commercial art like design that I love.
53. 

    I have been and still going through a nightmare with oDesk, having being badly burnt by one of the programmers here and not being given any work or proof of work from the contractor I of course refused to pay. I have explained the problem and sent prrof of this to oDesk so many times now. They are still writing to me to ask what the problem is and on Top of that keep attempting to charge my account every single day. This morning on the 45th attempt.
    I am not sure about the other Freelance sites, but I would definitely want some assurances from them if I do this again, I have had no understand backup or support from oDesk.
    Be aware that if you do have a problem you will get no help from them
    • 

      I’m a programmer and a drafter (Java,PHP work in Autocad 2012),I never bid less then %10/hour and I am looking at a change of profession because of what and how many people I have seen bid on jobs.It is disgusting having to earn a degree or 3 year diploma and then see people bid $5/hour for professional work.

      I have had more luck on Elance then Odesk
54. 

    I started using Guru and Elance back in the old days, around 2004. I found steady work through these sites for a good six years, and I have them to thank for my continued success due to repeat clients. I don’t even maintain a website anymore.

    Although I sometimes lost money due to underestimating the amount of time an editing project would take, I think it was about being in the right place at the right time and earning top-notch accolades because I always tried my best. I can’t speak for the industry now, but it was a great launching pad.
55. 

    This is exactly what eKast in NZ is tackling. They interviewed over 1000 developers and asked them what they liked and disliked regarding these platforms. According to the founder (who I have coffee with regularly), she said that they no longer let any developer just \sign\ up. Now they have a curated list of developers who have been screened across multiple facets (communication, skill, reliability, ect…). They charge a bit more (I think 10-12%) but at least you know its quality.

    I have used elance and odesk and they are good but I have had some VERY bad experiences. Not to say you throw the baby out with the bath water but I like the peace of mind knowing that I am getting quality and paying only a few % more. I also like that eKast will for a small fee – handle the project for you – using their core/team developers.

    Cool platform. Will be interesting to see how the whole human cloud disrupts normal ways of working.

    Great write up by the way. 🙂
56. 

    As a US-based contractor who has made their ENTIRE living from freelance websites the last few years, I find this a fascinating discussion. I also come at it from a slightly different perspective than others who have commented because I’m a medical device/mechanical engineer and not in IT, Writing, or Graphic Design. Nevertheless, there are often $5/hr bids next to my $20-$40/hr bids–and more often than not a $10/hr bid gets the project. I would guess that the “race to the bottom” on bids probably costs me a minimum of $5/hr and up to $20/hr on all of my jobs.
    That doesn’t bother me too much though. Sure it would be nice to make more, but overall I have no problem making half as much as I’m worth because I can work from anywhere, anytime—and completely for myself. It enables me to make $20/hr minimum (albeit part-time) from my homestead in the middle-of-freakin’-nowhere Southern Utah where my entire town of 300 people shuts down for the winter. In that way I also drive the “race to the bottom” in that I can work for much, much less than an equally qualified engineer who has the expense of living in suburbia.
    This whole article and the comments that follow are funny because there is a very common theme: If you spend less time writing your job descriptions than you spend on the toilet everyday then you are going to have difficulties no matter who you use or what service you use to find them. That is, unless you hire a highly qualified candidate with experience vetting out vague ideas into concrete objectives and superb communication skills–in that case you can be just fine. But you won’t get that for $2/hr, and if you think you can then you simply get what you deserve for being a fool.
    Overall, these sites are amazing tools for regular, everyday people who have ideas and want to make them a reality. Sometimes you need a Harbor Freight tool and sometimes you need the best tool money can buy. If you don’t know the difference between them or don’t know when each kind of tool is appropriate then you probably have no business using them in the first place.
    • 

      Josh,
      How much experience do you have in 3D injection part design/engineering? I have a small project now but more to come if your interested.

57. Pingback: How A Service Marketplace Can Help (Or Hurt) Your Business | SF Gazette

58. 

    I have done work with Elance, Odesk, and Freeelance and still do. As an Architect I skip past 99% of the postings because most are from employees who have no idea of the process involved in doing the kind of work that is needed to produce the packages they are looking for. A building.. namely a house in the US has far different building code issues from a life safety point of view than in the Philippines or hungry yet people from those countries profess to doing the work for 2$ an hour. Herein lies the real problem. Many of these people claim to have the education and expertise yet there is no way to factually prove it unless one asks for certificates. Still an individual with an \architectural degree\ from the Philippines or hungry or Russia could never perform those services in North America because it is illegal to practice architecture in the US without certification and without continuing education and exams in the US they would never be certified. Some states require seals on drawings for houses some don’t.
    Also to digress a bit companies and individuals are farming out works to foreigner’s who do not have to declare a 1099 whereas any Americans who take on work for these freelance websites must by law. These freelance companies know this and put up disclaimers to skirt US tax laws.
    As I understand it there is legislation under foot under motivation by the IRS to start forcing these companies to start collecting taxes at point of fee receipt.

    Also I have disputes with Odesk and Elance in terms of collecting. The dispute resolution mechanisms are flawed to the point of utter nonsense. Individuals deciding who the money in escrow goes to in the event of a dispute are not qualified in many cases to mediate these issues simply because the sheer number of professions all have different nuances that involve someone with experience in those professions to digest what actually transpired.

    Odesk is the worst with Elance following closely behind. In short you bust your behind working for low trodden wages then have to argue at times to be paid.
    Once again we have companies outsourcing work to 3 world countries and undermining our own economy in the process. Sooner or later we will knock enough blocks out from under our foundation to collapse this house we call the US economy.

    These jobs and associated payments fall under the labour laws of the US and their are grossly missappropirated with complete disregard for those labor laws. Odesk and Elance have many lawsuits in small claims court.

    It is my hope that we have forced legislation in place to enforce the IRS taxation laws on everyone that uses those services and they are effectively enforced. Also that litigation with respect to labor laws is also enforced.
59. 

    I come at this from the business side. I have used Odesk, Elance, and others over the years for everything from development to writing to simple assistant tasks. Like anything, there are good contractors and bad ones. It doesn’t matter where you go to look for contractors. The experience will be the same – a mixed bag – and price per hour has very little to do with it. I’ve worked with crappy $40/hour contractors and awesome $10/hour contractors and everything in between. The challenge I have had over the years is keeping the good ones around. Every time I have found a good contractor they typically only last about a year at the most. Then they get bored, find better projects, find full time jobs…whatever…but they just disappear. I’ve come to the realization that the only way to find quality talent that you can truly rely on is to hire them outright as an employee. I haven’t been able to afford to take that step yet but it seems to be the only answer.

    Travis
60. 

    As a web developer based out of India. and have been freelancing for the last 15 years started with guru.com and now on elance. What i have seen most of the times are projects that are being outsourced by individual contractors based in the US and they need the lowest amount. So if they have a contract for $3000 and they are looking for a bid close $300.. now i am not sure if they are stupid or not but i think its mostly greed and odds.. So they may end up giving an advance of 100$ and loose it tooo.. but in their minds its stil lteh odds they can still afford to get scammed a another few times before it starts hitting them.. and all because of the lure that they can ge the project completed at 10% of the cost…. i have seen it happen a million times …but greed is omnipresent…. the clever employer knows that even if he is paying 12-15$ he is atleast getting work done cheaper by us standards but more importantly the guy is not doign a runner…

    there is a saying if you pay peanuts you get monkeys.

    Please also note that the guy who probably ran away with your $50 not because he was scamming you its just because he got a better paying gig..
61. 

    After being on elance for about a month, I’ve found that being extremely detailed in proposals has helped me to land a few great jobs. While my hourly rate isn’t particularly low ($33/hr), I am able to get hired by emphasising the importance of clear communication to my clients and remaining punctual throughout the bidding process. As someone who has also hired on odesk, I’m familiar with the level of communication that happens between contractors and clients when working internationally (language barrier +desperation=quick and dirty) . I hired a developer through odesk at a low hourly rate who ended up breaking my site during a 10 hour (his estimate) project. I fixed it in 1. There are way too many WordPress and SEO \experts\ out there these days so it’s important for people who are hiring to do their research. If you’re asking for guaranteed page 1 position 1 placement for less than $500 dollars, you’re going to have a bad time.

    (btw) worst spam verification ever! c’mon LaunchStartup!

62. Pingback: The Top 7 Best Business Gigs on Fiverr

63. 

    Lucky me. The only time I hired a .NET developer from Freelancer, I found a great one from Syria, and since then he became my developer for many more projects, always delivering great solutions. Now I need a SEO expert….I hope I will be lucky again!!

64. Trackback: ugg españa

65. 

    I have been working in oDesk since the last 4 years and have seen plenty of good and bad clients and contractors. The problem is when a new client came on oDesk they think that they can get the job done as they wish with a low budget. Which is not possible. A well trained professional will charge you almost same in anywhere of the world. So, the better way for you to look at the reviews other clients gave and the portfolio section. There are a lot of section in the contractor’s profile from where you can determine the contractors ability. So, it shouldn’t be a problem if you know how to choose them.
66. 

    Hi! I am Augusto Teleg! I have been with only for two months but I have earned twice that salary I used to get by working in local companies here. Canadian, UK, USA, Singaporean employers have hired me and gave me rates higher than the minimum in my country. I feel lucky, but I guess it”s because of how I presented myself in my resume, and how I lived up to what’s written there. These websites have a very small window of opportunity for people from the developed countries and if you think these aren’t working for you, then do not sign up or delete your account. Eventually, everybody on Odesk, elance, etc. get’s filtered. Employees who offer low rates but do not deliver, get no jobs. Employers learn to hire not only based on the cost but quality.

    If you have spent so much time and have not gained anything from these sites, then the right place perhaps is not these freelancing websites. You have been filtered.

    I love that my work, my talent, my dedication, my passion, my skills, my English, my designs, my ideas, my intelligence and me are all admired, seen and appreciated by people from all parts of the world.

    I do not feel like working. There are jobs on odesk that I would have never encountered had I only looked in the grounds of the Philippines.

    I have been underpaid and abused by my country and I have never felt more noticed, and rewarded.

    Sometimes, I want to give a refund to the people who hired me and paid me because they do not know how much learning and how much enjoyment I gained by working with them.

    I deserve what I get. The world deserves to see my talent. Bow.

    If you agree, hire me. hahaha
67. 

    I like this article, although I am compelled to say that this does not present the whole story when it comes to Elance and oDesk. I am a freelance writer from the Philippines and I’ve been on both sites for about 4 years now. This is relevant because it touches on something that became the underlying argument for most of the article: that clients/companies are not likely to get good service on these sites because of the \price war\ between freelancers that eventually drive the quality of the work down to unacceptable levels.

    To understand my point, you only need to look at the dynamics of global business today and how the US and many other Western economies are losing jobs to China. Apple, for example, wants to outsource to FoxConn in China because labor and materials are cheap. Unfortunately for Apple, doing business in China does not come without hassles; the issues about labor exploitation, for example, has cast Apple in some bad light and has attracted unwanted attention just when Google is gaining market share. Simply put, price isn’t the only thing one should look at to get work done. Everyone knows that quality work comes with a price and if you’re not willing to pay the price, then expect to receive shitty work from shitty freelancers.

    The way to fix this is to come with a clear expectation of the work that you need done and then correlate that to what would amount as fair price for that type of work. Don’t just hire freelancers; hire freelancers who charge higher pay but also deliver the best work. Likewise, freelancers should also learn not to lower their standards just to earn a few dollars for a day’s worth of work. What I’m saying is, the system itself isn’t broken; it’s people’s expectations that are totally not in line with reality.

    I agree that the sites as they are currently designed aren’t perfect and horror stories happen everyday. I’m also sure there are ways to fix the problem from both Elance and oDesk’s perspective. But these should not be reasons for clients to move away from outsourcing; rather, these horror stories should become reminders of what happens when you want great work but hate to pay the price.

    I mentioned that I come from the Philippines but I don’t personally accept $3/hour rates. Heck, I don’t even entertain $10/hour jobs. I know what I bring to the table and I do a damn good job of convincing clients to return and hire me based on the quality of work that I deliver. I may cost more than other contractors but they know what they are getting from me. From my experience, one only needs to deliver top-notch work and even at higher prices, there will be no shortage of contractors/jobs to work on.
68. 

    I am a
    freelancer at odesk comes from india.I can see most of the people get annoying of bidding lowest by indian employees and they think that \They are not professional and destroying the freelancing\ .Are you out of mind? everyone want to survive in
    this world,everyone need money.When i searched for my first job in odesk i almost rejected in every job,even i bid a decent price among all.I got my first job only when i bid low for 2$!.You know our economy level, for us 1$=60Rs .The first job i had was only an hour,So i easily made 120rs in an hour.Most of the employee here in india getting the same amount as their daily salary.We can provide more professional work like other people from different countries.May be some of them among us do scam or not being professional. But don’t compare it totally with everyone.Now am continuing the freelancing,I am getting 10$ per hour for the decent job am providing.Most of my clients are satisfied with it.
    The clients who are not-professional and not want to spend too much on money that
    it actually take are the guys welcoming the lowest bid.Its not only about freelancer its also about Contractor.
69. 

    I am a professional artist working in the game industry in the UK, mostly.
    I think most of the freelancers out there complaining about the low wages online should know:
    – If you are professional, and if you are up to the standard, you won’t even be in a position to bid jobs on these sites. Freelancers in my industry are outstanding professionals, they are not hobbist or inexperienced newbies by definition. For a good artist, there are tones of good local companies hiring, who are willing to pay good salary, temperary or permanant roles.
    Also, for an artist/design role, if you are not up to the professinal standard… Then, you are only worthy of the money you get paid, be it $1 or 3. Non-professional artsits/designers would never be able to make a living anyway.
    The general concensus in the industry is , outsourcing is a very risky thing, it needs to be properly managed, with an outsource manager, also it should be a strategic desicion, rather than just based on the price. So in a way, it won’t upset the current market anyway, it’s merely a new global specilisation. Of course, the bitter problems is, it is extrmemely hard for a newbie artist/ designer to break into the industry, only the best can get in and survive. Dreaming of getting in with a degree and get a comfortable salary is a long gone dream.
    • 

      Online freelancing will not survive as a mainstay of outsourcing because people are using it to skirt taxation. Revenue administrators from government taxation administrations know this and are about to make sweeping taxation changes to fix this little black hole.

      So all these countries working for a dollar an hour be aware…unless the address of the online freelance service is outside of a commonwealth country or the US..good luck you will be forced to pay a outsourcing tax or it will be levied on the .com company itself. So much much for the slave labor rates…(way overdue).
    • 

      Good point ! Agree with you.
70. 

    Wow! I can’t believe all these years later there’s still tons of people trying to get something for nothing. In fact, they’re trying to get a Roll Royce for the price of a Pinto. It ain’t gonna work, at least not for long. The kind of RFPs you see on these sites demand an insanely high level of talent and dumb ass business people think that finding creative and technical talent is akin to shopping at Wal-mart. In their feeble, greedy, little minds, people who do real work are less than they are, just like the scumbags in wall street believe they deserve a bailout while the homeowner shouldn’t.
71. 

    This just made my day – \Mircea Goia, another Quora power user adds:\

    I know Mircea Goia personally (in person) and we bumped heads before. He is a pretender.

    He likes to think of himself as a quality something, I can not integrate him in a specific niche. He is a pompous A hole who likes to talk and think about something that he has no F’ing clue how to do.

    And how can you comment in the name of you \business man\ friend?
    Do you know his capabilities to formulate the requirements?
    Did he provide enough information?

    If his so called BUSINESS MAN wanted quality, then why in the world went to Elance in the first place?. Why not hire locally (at least you have more control)?

    There are a lot of factors that are in play here and you cannot stigmatize all providers on either platform because one project was unsuccessful from the first try. And please stop referencing a power user just because he is a power user somewhere, the thing that he is a POWER USER does not mean he is also right, he has a very low pool for his opinion (and I do need to emphasize that is only HIS opinion). I would take his opinion in consideration if it would be a result of a test pool of Z business mans who make posts according to a specific job description and they got only bad applicants or bad results.

    It’s impossible to base the performance of the entire platform on a single unsatisfied customer.
    • 

      Good grief. Were you flaming or is your English really that bad? Read your post again. Choppy.
72. 

    Be it Odesk or Elance – most of the Freelance sites on the web can’t simply help you when you need a complex, abstract project done in those domains. They are good in tangible services like web development, logo development etc. For abstract works like statistical analysis or economics homework, Statlance would be a good option.
73. 

    Ouch Sam, I work at $10 an hour as a writer in oDesk, and I hope you don’t look down on me. But I do agree on some points raised by this article, except that, if you stick to your guns – insist on your rate and deliver quality results consistently – you can win the battle. I’m very picky with projects and that really helps me build my
    ‘brand.’ Out of every 10 invites I receive, I usually only entertain one or two, but what little I get, I get quality and long-term engagement in exchange. I haven’t fully tried Elance, so my perspective is somewhat limited, because I’m getting more than enough jobs on oDesk to bother chasing for more. I think my ‘luck’ stemmed from choosing the right projects and clients who feel it is a steal to be paying someone half or a third of the price for quality comparable to what native speakers could produce. It took me three years however to jump from $5 to $10 an hour, but it was all worth it. I’m equally ‘lucky’ to be residing in the Visayas (despite Yolanda and Bohol incidents) where cost of living is much lower than Manila, so I only need to work 20 hours a week for two months to get covered.
74. 

    I’m from India and I’m a new member on Elance. I was told that this would be a great place to find work but I’m a little disappointed. I have never sent a canned response to any project but I’m finding it difficult to get contractors to even notice I exist. Unlike most freelancers from out here, I speak English fluently and I can understand the job’s requirements clearly. I didn’t come here to become a programming monkey. I’m skilled enough to suggest better options to the contractor so they can get their job done more efficiently. I thought I had an advantage over most of the other Indians on Elance but it seems we’re all looked at the same way.

    On almost every project I’ve ever bid on, there’s a bid from another freelancer for just $20. I can’t understand how somebody can work for so less unless they plan to do a half assed job. A lot of my bids were rejected saying the bid amount was unreasonable. So I took the bait, did a few projects for $20 since I was just starting out and the only thing I cared about at that time was to build a reputation before I can ask for reasonable rates but nothing’s changed.

    I’ll try it for another month before I move on to something else. I think I’m better off contacting the local companies directly.
    • 

      Welcome to self-employment, on a WORLD scale! I have been reading a lot about this online and what seems to be apparent is that there ARE companies who will pay a reasonable rate for good developers, but it takes a long time to build up reputation on sites like oDesk. And when I say long I mean more than a month…probably minimum of 6 mos to a year of working at below standard wages in order to build up your profile. If you can afford to do that, fine. But if not…well…good luck!
    • 

      Elancer, I don’t know anything about your technical skills, but your English is definitely first rate. Since the language barrier is one of the difficulties of working across national boundaries, I would be surprised if you don’t do well.
      • 

        You can’t make that assumption based on one qualification… English should be one of MANY qualifications.
75. 

    I agree with many of the comments, especially about not going with the boilerplate responses. I’ve gotten some very high quality contractors on oDesk by specifically *not* hiring the lowest tier of prices responsible. I then typically allocate a small portion of the task and farm it out to 3-4 contractors. Usually you can cull through 80% of the responses by the attention paid by the applicant and then identify the really solid folks with a small amount of money at risk. It does take work though. I’m not sure how many people expect that from the start. I think it is absolutely in not being able to define your tasks well up front and then a lack of understanding on what to expect back. I’ve found it very rewarding *if* you put the proper amount of controls in place up front. My thoughts.
76. 

    I registered on both Elance and oDesk; I’ve found Elance to be useful, but not oDesk. The level of pay most employers are offering on oDesk is too low for me. In my opinion, it is possible to find decent clients on Elance, especially if you work in a specialist area of writing. For example, I have an expertise in academic writing, which a lot of other contractors don’t have, so that helps a lot in terms of competitiveness.
77. 

    Freelance sites have created a certain niche. This niche has its positives such as the affordable work and a wide range of talent. However, the shortcomings are becoming more apparent as time moves on. The lack of quality assurance and the “open source” structure of sign-ups and bidding leaves much to be desired.

    When we built our site we looked for a company that would be able to get quality work done at a reasonable price. We didn’t expect to cheat the cost, quality, time triangle but we knew that freelancers would be too risky.

    There is a New Zealand group thats is entering the opposite niche (www.ekast.co.nz). They have created a platform that allows you to post your job. The developers that work for them are ISO certified and they apparently don’t allow more than a 1:3 client/developer ratio to ensure saturation (and its ill effects) don’t surface. When we signed up and posted, it all remained semi-private (although they have a private feature). And we were contacted both by eKast support and developer – which is a bonus.

    The only downside I can see is that they don’t have the automated system such as elance or odesk. As in, you can’t post your job then have hundreds of people bidding on your job. They essentially control it all in house. This is a downside if you are trying to find a massive amount of bids. But then again, we weren’t.

    This is a great blog post, the information here has really made me think differently about our next project.
78. 

    BTW, kudos to whoever came up with the idea for the SOLVEmedia advertising. Playing an ad to get the human verification code: very smart idea! 😉
79. 

    I’m not sure how old this article is, but I just had an insane month on oDesk.

    I have signed up for most of the different freelance sites, but before I could finish filling out all of my profiles, I got so busy I had to let them go. In the last two weeks I’ve turned down so many invites to apply for jobs that it just kills me!

    In case you’re wondering, I’m an American by birth and lived there for 50 years. I currently live in Mexico. I charge $25-$30/hour for web development.

    I wish I knew why this all happened so I could write an ebook about it, but the fact is that once I got my first job feedback and logged at least one hour of verified work, the invitations started pouring in. Most people quickly figure out the value of native English and similar time zones vs. cheap labor. So don’t let articles like this scare you. Reasonable bids, good work. You can do this.
    • 

      But $25-30 is on the low end for American talent, especially for a web developer. And if you’re even more specialized (ie. Ruby on Rails) that certainly helps in your favor.

      After all the unbillable hours and after taxes, you’re looking at $10-15 an hour.

      I don’t question your success at your rate, but once you start wanting to charge $100+ an hour, you might find it a little more difficult to find work.
    • 

      What you think about Ziptask?
80. 

    Odesk recently stole money from me.

    When the work was not done I reported the contractor and requested a refund. Contractor replied and admitted to Odesk that they did not do the work. Even though the contractor said they didn’t do the work Odesk still kept the money. Their excuse was I shouldn’t have hired someone hourly on their website! That explains the 85 complaints on the BBB!
    • 

      You should really try Ziptask. It’s way better.
      • 

        I actually have 2 projects on Ziptask now. One is almost done. There’s a slight learning curve, so not recommended if you are a complete idiot. The balance is steered towards those who know enough about what they’re doing do speak intelligently about it to a project manager. That project manager is what you could also hire yourself through oDesk or Elance, but I find it takes too long to train them, which is what I tried to do. Skip it and pay the fee. It’s worth it. Ziptask is my friend/lover now.
81. 

    A Few Thoughts. 1.) I think this – the post and the replies – is seen somewhat shallowly. We freelancers in the West can’t compete with offers made by folks who think a few $/day is fair AND normal, just as blue collar workers can’t compete with the cheaper labor elsewhere, (sometimes elsewhere is in this country!). So folks in the west go where labor is plentiful and cheap. But where is this all going?Someday the cheap labor will want more out of life, like we did back when unions & child labor laws were fighting for a footing; someday the cheap labor will be far less plentiful and the rich folks will have to dip a tad deeper into their stock options and Yacht Fuel fund – until the actual labor can be done by machines ,computer, convicts and there will really be a job shortage!
    2.) The presently cheap labor is getting more jobs, raising unemployment and enhancing the profits of the large companies that are firing/downsizing/mechanizing, (lower production cost & higher sales profits with a fairly predictable future of expense increases and tax benefits. We have long seen it in America, the land of the consistently raised ‘debt ceiling’. And SURPRISE! it’s ‘destroying’ the Freelancers’ world – among others. Our vaunted technology is enabling the poor to make a weeks’ salary in a matter of hours – and they’re grabbing it. The well-off West have a supply of eager, increasingly able ‘dirt cheap’ production units – and they’re grabbing it. The skilled, educated masses caught in the morass/middle are left with fewer income-producing choices paying fewer useful dollars, uncertainty, confusion and a lifetime of direction — rationally explained and backed by a fairly (recent and brief) history of assured ‘advancement’ that led them to where they are now: something of a Lost Generation II.
    3.) Even if you do get a gig at Odesk, Elance, Fiver, Guru, People per Hour, etc. you aren’t really in control. The buyer may refuse payment, the company may be a scam, companies may merge/close . . . and your time and effort at prepping a gig, finding a buyer, completing the gig – hoping it’s what they meant – and getting paid in a reasonable time and with not-too-unreasonable fees deducted by the (site/middleman/escrow agent J.G.) owners who are the most successful gig getters around . . . are you certain you’re making anything near what you offered after all this stressing, (ignoring the continuously decreasingly valued dollar)?
    4.) Look around folks!
    • 

      Guy, I make $80 an hour on Elance, and I have more work than I can handle. Don’t try to compete with the lowest bidder. It is its own punishment. Do valuable things, charge what it is worth, and let the undifferentiated mass of third-worlder flesh create static web pages.

      Small business people initially *LOVE* the idea of getting stuff done for less than minimum wage, until they get the first delivery. Then they realize that crappy quality work is the same as no work at all. All of the sudden, they are quite anxious to see your pasty white western face, because you have that silly western “do a good job” ethic. Let them lie, cheat, and steal. It helps our “brand”.

      Stick it to ’em.
    • 

      The ability to produce and reproduce life for oneself is not for you to decide…crybaby. Your “educated ,skill & well-off ” came at someone else’s cost…….it has now reached your shores. Enjoy
82. 

    For two and a half years, I used elance.com. As an advertising copywriter with 30 years of experience, I had some great work from some great clients. During my use of the site, I earned $7000, money that I would not have earned ptherwise. However, even though I had trouble finding local work for even a fraction of street rates in Canada, I simply grew tired of feeling exploited by the Elance system–plus paying $10.00 a month for the privilege. I can’t calculate all the hours and effort I put in just to win those assignments that added up to $7000. I resented putting out quality work for less than than what the bag boy earns at my local grocery store.
    • 

      Fred, I could not have said it better. After all the non-billable back and forth to earn just a few honest dollars, it felt like a schmuck.
83. 

    This is a GREAT article. Thank you. I have had GOOD experience with Odesk. I have a lot of programming experience but I am not a, “Programmer”. I am more of a systems guy who dabbles top-to-bottom from Web UI to embedded systems. When I have some new-fangled idea to pull together I might rough a good bit of it in, but individual technologies (like a compliant Joomla component) or some ancient ASP code that needs fixing, or any number of items that would require book-work by me are BEST contracted out via odesk.

    I ECHO what you write above: because I am technical and can not only specifiy but also debug and often GUIDE fixes once code is delivered I am able to run a good contract.

    I have enjoyed “meeting” people from many places and working with them. Funny though, on oDesk I hired a graphics designer for some branding material who lives 30 miles from me.
84. 

    I have only used fiver and oDesk.

    The two simple jobs I had done on fiver were delivered exactly to the quality and style I was promised. I used people with consistent good ratings and a clearly defined product or service.

    On oDesk, I have had a mixed results. If I was time constrained, I would probably use different options. However, I was seeking value for money through lower wage countries for medium difficulty jobs. The good has outweighed the bad quite well.

    Website work: Both an Indonesian and a Vietnamese programmer were quick and professional, and took pride in what they delivered. I was very happy with them and was charged $7 and $10 an hour. One of them was very exact with how much time they took and did not in any way try to make their work look more difficult or time intensive than it was. The other tried a little to milk things, but only needed one link to a website explaining how to do a particular bit of programming for them to play it straight.

    Comic and Manga Art: I got very mixed results, but also two people who have been a real pleasure to work with. I mostly focused on beginning artists with a good portfolio linked to on another website. I got each of 20 people to do a draft panel in a style they would do throughout the comic. I paid each for the panel as it gave me a good indication of their capabilities and gave me possible material I could use in other ways for advertising etc. After the screening I contracted 7 people. Of them, only 3 finished the comic. One who did not finish had good quality and style, but, because she made a mistake by not meeting my specifications, suddenly stopped communicating. I think she thought she might have had to start again. If she communicated we might have found a way to make things work. I had to send a legal communication to two who did nothing after stalling me off. Both returned my upfront payment (I never pay 50% up front, but pay a smaller amount with more frequent milestones and a reasonably large payment after completion. The latter is to get the less motivated to complete their work). One who did not get much work done had a personal crises in their life. She apologized and returned the money. One talented young lady did some beautiful work for me. I was so appreciative, I connected her with my network and she did a lot of work while she was on oDesk. Another who completed a comic, I helped by building her style through feedback and recommendations as she was open and honest. She is building her portfolio in an area that suits her style. And one person has been a real delight. His work is consistently more than I ask and he has been consistently open and honest with me. So, I am employing him for 6 to 12 months at the median wage in his country (significantly higher than he would be getting normally) so he can develop his talent, while he works at home with his young wife and 6 month old baby. In return, I have a talented, passionate, open, honest and energetic young man working with me. I f he continues to meet expectations, I will build a part of my business with him in a profit sharing arrangement.

    In summary, if I was a big business or time constrained for complex work to be done, I would probably use other strategies. However, for medium level coding work and art, my approaches, with time and effort, have found me some great go-to people and colleagues.
85. 

    +1 on ziptask. Ziptask is actually what I would consider the closest solution there is to being best of breed.
    • 

      odesk, elance, ziptask, and freelancer. They do mostly the same thing right? Why do you say best of breed?
86. 

    I used Ziptask last month. I had a good experience. We built 2 WordPress websites, Both of which were from bootstrap HTML 5 based themes. Project manager was great. He basically functioned as an architect and a project manager in one. He had three guys working for me. He fired one of him and hired a new guy. The project got delivered three days late but I did not lose any money. It was a great overall experience and I am using them again on another project for the company I work for.
87. 

    Actually use Ziptask along with freelancers that I had already hired through another portal. Their project manager basically took over where the other guy had left off. They did a pretty good job, although I had to pay for project management hours, it’s way better than doing it myself.

    I do agree with Deke, in his comment about expectations being unreasonable and people in the West being fairly shallow. It’s unfortunate that there is quite a learning process when you start outsourcing work.
88. 

    Ziptask ‘looks’ great… is it real though… ? seems to good to be true.
89. 

    Even elance jobs with verified clients or have paid one contractor can still be a scammer. Check out for tips on detecting verified elance clients as scammers and also search starwritersgroup@gmail.com on Google search and you will see that this company Star Writers Group is a fraud / scam.
    • 

      Just search the email address and don’t click it unless you are going to investigate them.
90. 

    Simple solution here to build tools that give you a headstart over the Freelancer market.

    Your competition is canned bids by les than experienced developers. If you have the tools they you can really do well.
91. 

    I’m extremely pleased to find this site. I wanted to thank you for ones time
    just for this fantastic read!! I definitely liked every bit of it and I have you
    bookmarked to check out new things in your blog.
92. 

    Great read and I can vouch for the fact that more times than not, your oDesk scenarios are very true. I have found another provider that is planning to disrupt the oDesk model called at http://www.workshop55.com. They hand pick selected qualified freelance developers and work closely with client and freelancer providing a bridge between the two markets of freelancer and client.
93. 

    odesk or elance or anything in between, so long as they’re freelancing sites, are not worth it!

    companies posting jobs there are just looking for the lowest bidder and they expect the job to be squeaky clean and high-quality, but they pay and even haggle if the amount is above $3!

    the struggles of most freelancers from southeast asia is the competition among themselves because some of them agree with the $1 per article or $1 per hour…which is CRAZY!!!

    i just wish there is a standard amount regardless of location, but based on true value that the freelancers offer… but the best thing to do is avoid these sites coz they’re NOT WORTHY!
    • 

      I have worked for companies on Elance and they’ve chosen me despite my bid being up to twenty times that of my Asian counterparts. Your statement isn’t true, if it is in your case then unlucky, maybe more effort could help your situation.
94. 

    As someone who has only been on Elance for 6 months, am on track to make a six-figure income there, I have a somewhat different experience on the site, and take a very different tack on getting business there (note that Elance is less than half my revenue).

    There is no shortage of Indians willing to work for less than minimum wage, willing to bid on completely undefined jobs, and who make wild claims of experience they obviously don’t have. I could kiss each and every one of them on the lips. You see, people are not that aware of what a low standard of ethics these people have, until they get proposals from them. However, this group if bidders are so quick to self-identify themselves as dishonest, unreliable people, that they actually benefit me, by comparison.

    Here is how. There is a profile on Elance, designed to list someone’s skills and experience. The vast majority of bidders, however, are bidding completely outside their skill set. Apparently they do not have enough powers of self-reflection to realize that those placing jobs would actually *CHECK* to see if the two matched. When they don’t (and they don’t the vast majority of the time), it doesn’t take two many trips to the well to get quite disgusted with the situation. Suddenly, an American who is obviously highly rated, and making a lot of money seems a lot better risk to take, than this undifferentiated mass of dishonesty that the typical Elance third-worlder represents.

    So, I charge what the market will bear. I must say that I enjoy putting Indians out of work an inordinate amount. It shows the basic problem with them. If you actually care if the work gets done, then don’t hire an Indian. Only big corporations, who don’t really care about getting their mission accomplished, can afford to hire people who just steal, posture, and collude with each other to get their relatives hired.

    Employers on Elance actually *NEED* to get those jobs done – unlike the dirtbags like IBM and AT&T, who couldn’t care less.
    • 

      I have to agree with you on most point (not the ethics of Indians)

      Elance for me has been a huge success, been working fully for two months now and the potential to earn big money if you put the hours in is staggering.

      No problems with Indians or Africans or any other developing nations bids that are much lower…my profile shows up as UK and my proposals are all tailored, unique and written well which I feel allows for a response rate of roughly 80%, of which I am offered the job in most cases providing I put the effort in on Skype or by replying to my potential clients quickly.

      It does not matter if someone bids $3 and ive budded $500 for the same job. As anyone who has sense and wants the job doing properly (equally these are the people I want to work for, not those seeking services on the cheap only) will choose mine. My main competition comes from a few US and UK contractors, no other threats to my proposals as I know those clients that are worth working for will not even consider the ridiculously low bids.
95. 

    It’s also about cost of living. If I lived in Sand Francisco Vs Portland I would have to make 7X more then I do now. If I lived in Mexico, I could live on 1/3 of what I need in Portland….. If you can live on $2.50 where you live – awesome!
    • 

      Very true. I actually just moved from Portland to Las Vegas – where cost of living is even cheaper.

      Conversely, there are plenty of cities around the world that have a much higher cost of living than SF – like Tokyo.
96. 

    Write more, thats all I have to say. Literally, it seems as
    though you relied on the video to make your point.
    You obviously know what youre talking about, why waste your
    intelligence on just posting videos to your weblog when you could be giving
    us something enlightening to read?
97. 

    Great article! I’m yet to use Odesk, but I’ve seen some of these exact patterns with Elance. I started using Pro Digital Network for some of my freelance work and I like it. They offer a premium service that requires freelancers to go through an application process to be approved to see jobs in a particular field. It’s great because you have fewer people biding on jobs, and the people that bid are legit pros in the field.
98. 

    These are some good points – hiring is tricky on sites like oDesk and Elance because really – all you have to go off of are ratings/feedback contractors have been given. They have those tests but there isn’t much vetting aside from those things.
99. 

    oDesk is a big scam. Odesk does nothing about it. I got a complaint opened with them and the Better Business Bureau. I won’t let it go until I get a refund of my $26.17. Someone scammed me and sent me stolen software from another website and closed the job. How can they close the job marking it complete? I’m the employer! I say when it’s complete! I want them to review/change their policy and refund my money.
100. 

     If you are a contractor.
     There is no quality price.
     That’s the first point.

     Some people are too greedy on Fiverr, the requested service is $ 400 for $ 5.
     It was not paradise.

     Clearly you can examine them and utilize them.
101. 

     633 Spence Drive
102. 

     …and yet, in all of this, I only just tried out Odesk. I am now well taken care of with regular work from the few people that accept my job applications. The work is not that difficult nor time consuming, nor is it very well paid. That said, for the work it is, it is fine.
     I have only been applying for jobs on Odesk for one month and have three regular jobs that are repeat/monthly jobs.
     It will probably mean around $300/month for me. Not something to retire on, but I am new and relatively unskilled.
     I am also finding my feet and the people I am working for think well of me and the work I am doing for them and in return I seek to over-deliver.

     Far from the rather gloomy picture you just painted, everyone is happy. I ask you to find fault with my scenario. Tell me this too, IF this situation was so grim, then how does it come about that three out of three employers on there are happy?

     I think there is a bias here I do not know about. I want to know why you have not presented the balanced position because obviously there are people really enjoying their experience.
     • 

       I’m not here to dissuade people from using freelance websites, only open their minds up to what it’s like out there. Of course people are finding success, they wouldn’t have grown exponentially if that weren’t the case.

       I know many people who earn regular work on Elance/oDesk, et. al. Sometimes it just depends on what you do and for how much. $50-100/hr for a rail developer could be considered a bargain on freelance websites, whereas paying $15/hr for data entry is a little far fetched.
       • 

         I have worked in O Desk for over two years. I am Canadian. I do accounting and bookkeeping and regularly get job interview offers. I think my profession varies from the others. I work with both USA and Canada clients. My specialty seems to be cleaning up messes after bookkeepers. I have cleaned up some huge messes, some from the west bookkeepers and some from the rest of the world.
         I think a huge issue is security of financial information is why I get offers and chosen over Indians, Fillipinos etc. Many of my clients, if not most use O Deskers and do very well.
         The downside I have found is some new to O Desk as employers do not know how to handle staff or are good with the virtual venue. Some are outright scammers looking for not just cheap work, They want free. I tend to decline employers with no O Desk history.
         All in all. I am happy working with O Desk. It’s here to stay.
103. 

     I have tried elance for a while. The bids are so low it is ridiculous. Also even if you land a good gig, you have to pay elance a whopping 11%…really? It is a joke. Some of the offers, if you take in account taxes and living expenses, you are paying to work too.
104. 

     Hello,

     Elance is the biggest scam I have come across, my account had loads of connects which came with my membership. I was accumulating them for few months, they suddenly suspended my account. This came without any warning or notification to me.There is no appeal process as well. I have lost connects worth months of membership money which they charged to my
     card. Biggest scammers, shameful company, I would never register in their workplace again.

     With Regards,
     Kscoped
105. 

     Interesting article and spot on – even with a background in web site development we ran into problems with odesk when we accepted a contractors proposal to build something ‘better’ than the word press installation that we’d asked for. Result a web site that didn’t work and was rejected. The complaint raised via odesk was an interesting experience. We were on the point of reaching a resolution with the contractor when odesk ‘mediation’ team stepped in and basically sabotaged the effort. We’ve since contracted another odesk contractor who has carried out the work properly and to a very high standard – that we’ve already paid for the same work is a bone of contention. Odesk is what it is and we will continue to use it. Lets face it you don’t need to use odesk to have a bad contractor experience, there are lots of them around, but buyer beware…
106. 

     I am searching for elancers and so far I found a good translator. She even agreed to take the work outside of elance. I know it’s against the rules but she prefers it saying she aits too much time to be paid in elance. I am now searching for an editor and graphic designer. In general it’s a good place, I think.
107. 

     Thanks for sharing this article, but, there is too much negativity in this article.
     This is a fact: Elance will connect you with an opportunity to “capture a lead”.

     Please watch this video — http://j.mp/1vvBlnH
     (copy / paste)

     p.s. – I’ve never used oDesk, but it appears to be the same.
108. 

     These websites are a joke. The “featured” 5 star contractors are typically those from India, or Syria or some other country where work is cheap. They flood the market with their low quality crappy applications so it’s impossible for a well educated person like myself to have any chance to compete. Even if my quality is 100 times better than 90% of the applicants, the job poster is blocked by all the low-ball offers. What a crock of sh*t!
109. 

     First of all… the article is great.. the comments, woah…

     I have been freelancing on Odesk, eLance and Freelancer since 2009. I now work at $30/hr (average) as a freelance writer. I do blog posting, content writing, copywriting and ghost writing. I am in Seattle, and the cost of living is QUITE high. I am listed with an offline local writing agency, and get no work. Similar projects offline pay $30-50/hr. I work anywhere from 20-30 hours per week.. I do not search for clients. I also manage an odesk agency.

     What Americans need to realize (both hiring and freelancing) is that they world is competitive. If you want a quality product pay for it. There is affordable quality, but you will need to search for it. It will not come in the first bid you receive. For example, I write most blog posts for $10. High quality ones..not was this written by an ESL writer blog posts. .. Many Americans think that is too low and refuse to work at those rates. However, because I am so good.. my quick work is everyone’s challenging work. I am still making $30/hr.

     Perhaps I should charge $100/hr for my writing. It’s probably worth it, but I’ve been in the real world.. and the real world discriminates. Thank goodness the Internet connects me with people outside of my community.

     That is what this marketplace is about – an extension of your local market so that you can find quality talent- NOT an opportunity to disrupt the economies of local communities. Hire local and keep your economy going. If you cannot, consider the impact you are making. You are taking money out of the people who could buy your services. They aren’t working – so they aren’t buying. That is where we are going when we continuously poor large amounts of our money into other economies then sit around and wonder why no one can afford to support our businesses. If I wanted to do business with Indians, I’d go to an Indian company. This isn’t to say I am not International. I have international clients- most of them actually – because they market to Americans and know Americans want to read American content. For some reason, we don’t.

     If you are American and cannot afford to hire someone American (at $5 or $6/hr) for your project… perhaps you should reconsider your business model, because it doesn’t sound like you can afford to be in business. Countries have minimum wage for a reason.
     • 

       I’m a U.S. contractor that hires overseas exclusively. Jenn Marie is bothered that people in the U.S. can use freelancing sites to find cheaper labor rates around the world and believes we should be bound by U.S. minimum wage law even for work done by people overseas. Great idea, Jean! I’ll do that as soon as General Electric and all the other U.S. companies do. Almost all of them outsource all around the world to avoid our minimum wage. Not only do we avoid paying minimum wage by outsourcing around the world, we also don’t have to pay payroll taxes or any taxes. Think about all the extra tax dollars our government would get for schools, roads, police, and all sorts of other great public goods. This is not a problem with the freelance sites, it is a problem written into the structure of our economy. It is a problem that likely won’t be solved. U.S. freelancers will definitely be pulled down in price by the competition from overseas, but the up side is that these people from overseas will have their labor rates increased by offering service to contractors from the U.S. The real problem is that U.S. businesses and contractors are benefiting from repressive labor laws that keep labor costs down in some parts of the world. For example a Nike shoe factory in China can pay their laborers a few cents an hour, repressed by the Chinese government, and the economic benefit goes to U.S. companies. To me, the main ethical dilemma is this — contractors and U.S. companies are benefiting from labor repression around the world.
110. 

     I like the comments on this article..
     secondly,I hate all scammers on oDesk and elanc.
111. 

     I never try on elance yet, usually i post a job on freelancer or odesk.
     Im a small business owner in indonesia, as you know, our living cost and income is totally different from western country, so we cant afford a cost to hire western freelancer.

     Regarding to the issue about low budget project, im usually post a job with maximum cost that i can afford, in hope i can find someone from somewhere who think that budget is good enough for them.

     So its not all emplower thinking about pressing the budget, diff country have a different budget for their project, for example develeoping such a mobile native app, most of quality bidder in freelance site will bid above $2000, while in my country with $1000-$1500 you can already get the app developement by a company not a single freelancer, but as the business owner, you might prefer to let the job done by a single freelancer which might cost you less than $1000.
112. 

     Hi,

     Interesting discussion and I agree that there are many who look for disruption (and the right solution) to unlock outsourcing. In my opinion oDesk-eLance is not the answer (perhaps addresses well the freelance labour part but not really the client part, besides only the part pf the market is addresses). Ziptask is getting some of the issues addressed. However, can Ziptask model be scalable (bigger contracts, thousands of them).
     We have a different approach, ready off-the-shelf teams available through marketplace. All best-match, reviewed and vetted. ekipa is the global marketplace for software teams.
     So argue this is the closest to really disrupting and unlocking the market as it is open to many players on both sides. teams are already organized and have worked together in the domain clients are interested in. We think this works for SMEs and some day soon we are becoming Accenture (or Infosys) from the cloud.
     Wonder what you think about it
113. 

     This article was repetitive and one-sided. You jump to conclusions without being balanced. The things you say are true but the conclusions you draw don’t make sense. Just because there are a lot of junk contractors and junk jobs out there, doesn’t mean that with a little hard work its not easy to find several qualified individuals to complete quality work.
114. 

     I love this article because someone finally found the words to express all that is wrong with both Elance and oDesk (and now Upwork). In fact, initially working through both platforms inspired me to start my own virtual assistance company and actually do it the right way…quality over quantity.
115. 

     Wow, I’ve had such a different experience from the standpoint of an employer on Guru and Elance. (Trying right now to hire someone through Upwork, but not going well.) I’ve spent well over $100k on Guru.com and several thousand on Elance. I have paid anywhere from $10/hr to $95/hr, depending on the skills needed and where the provider was located, hence how much was necessary to pay to get the skills required by the job.

     Overall I’ve been fairly happy with getting websites created like this, both for my own companies and for clients. There have been a number of terrible providers, mostly from India/Pakistan, which is why I no longer have the patience to even attempt to hire from those countries anymore. And there have been some rip-off artists from the US, who have the necessary communication skills and understanding of site terms and laws to pull it off. But there have also been some incredibly reliable providers who have helped me achieve things I could not find anyone local to help me achieve. I am too close to Silicon Valley, where everyone is earning 6 figures and there is a shortage of employees even at that rate. I have no choice but to go online to find service providers, or just not grow my company at all.

     I recently wanted to go with a local contractor for a new website instead of going back to Guru and such. I found a website of a provider whose portfolio I liked and submitted their bidding tool proposal, offering $5000. They wrote me back essentially laughing at my offer, and telling me to try buying a $50 template instead. Well you know what, if $5K is laughable, I don’t feel bad at all about “dragging down” the going wage by hiring off-shore. I wound up making that site myself, as it was a simple brochure type WordPress site that was needed, with only 6 pages. I can’t believe I even offered $5k for it in the first place! But was definitely a wake up call.

     Philippines, Ukraine, Indonesia… there are good options out there and they are happy to make $10-50/hr.
     • 

       Hi All, Just got scammed by a programmer in India. Beware of the contract stipulations. We were told that our funds would not be released unti we were satified. That was not true. There was a 30 day release on our funds by the e company. The programmer worked with us in the beginning but we could not get him to comply with our requests. He would say he was working on it. Once the funds were released, he stopped working and now we have very little recourse. Try to stay in America where you can sue if you need to.
116. 

     I worked on oDesk a few years. I was very selective because I soon realized, if I worked one job for a decent fee, it would pay me more than working full time for the insulting fees offered. I worked, primarily, as a writer. There were those who would offer to pay a penny for three words. I found most of it a real waste of time.

     The website is horrible. There are few filters and, the ones that do exist, are inadequate. For instance, I do website programming, but my skills are limited. I can use HTML/CSS and WordPress, but I am not an expert in any of it. I would love to find jobs that only needed those skills at a beginner level. I know the pay would be poor, but it would give me a chance to improve and network. However, there is NO way to isolate those kinds of jobs. There are thousands of jobs to look through, and it can take hours to find something suitable.

     The customer service to freelancers is the worst. They ignore every request. You get canned responses, and they pay no attention to anything. I find it hateful. I also find them incompetent. They have no respect for freelancers. I once picked up a job that almost resulted in my losing my PayPal accounts. I could have gotten in trouble with the law. I did learn it is possible to be the contact point in the U.S. for a foreign company, but that means taking all the risks. What the employer wanted was for me to open an eBay (as I recall) account and sell their product. What that meant was that they would take the money and leave me holding the bag. Because I was very careful to learn what I needed to do, when the time came for them to do what they needed to do to stay legal, they disappeared. oDesk/Upwork does NOTHING to protect its freelancers. They should screen all jobs to make sure they are legitimate. They don’t bother.

     For those starting out, it’s okay. However, with their new way of evaluating freelancers, it might prove to be a bad experience. I went from a 4.85 out of 5.00 rating to what is now a 73% Job Success rating, and my other stats are considerably lower. They take evaluations behind our backs and do not explain why our scores are so low. It’s been months, and nothing has changed. I don’t know who rated me badly, nor do I know what those ratings were.

     I had another terrible job experience. Someone hired me. I sent message after message, for a week, asking for an explanation of what I was supposed to do. I never got a response. Then, at the end of the week, I got an evaluation. I was accused of doing nothing. I had done nothing because I had no idea what to do. I am sure that is part of my rating, and it is unfair.

     As a writer, I know there are those who will not like my style. Whenever I have clients who are unhappy, I tell them they can use my research and whatever I wrote without charge. I do not expect to be paid for something the client doesn’t like. Now, I am being punished for that. I thought that was a positive thing.

     I would be happy to elaborate on anything I have written. Please forgive the excessive length. This idea of matching employer to employee is great, but Upwork fails miserably. Thank you for the opportunity to share my experiences.
117. 

     First, thanks for leaving the comments open here!

     I mainly want to comment about UpWork after the big switchover and supposed merger.

     First, as of today, twenty days after the UpWork launch, Elance.com is still active and you can log in and search for jobs and you will never see a single thing about either oDesk, UpWork or the merger. It is as if it never happened!

     Second, oDesk had an ENTIRE YEAR after the merger announcement to work on the new site, UpWork. A few bugs and glitches are to be expected, but in fact they decided to redo *everything* and have failed (so far) to fix the problems they caused.

     Third, UpWork’s major problem has to do with email notifications. They stopped working on May 5 and this has not yet been fixed, three WEEKS later. If I bid on a job and my bid is selected, I’ll never know it unless I go back to the site and manually look for it. If a client updates me on an existing job, I’ll never know it unless I visit the site. This is a massive failure, and I predict it will cause a massive dip in UpWork’s income sheet for this quarter. By now, many of us are moving to other platforms.

     Fourth, from the UpWork help menu, if you select Help > What’s New you are taken to the official company blog. You are greeted by a headline stating “How the World Works” but there is no content. If you look at your browser tab, you can see it’s a 404 Error. But otherwise it’s not obvious where you are, or what happened. The article title seems prescient…

     Fifth, all of this was released without ANY prior notice. You go to oDesk one day and Bam! You’re on UpWork. HORRIBLE project management. No setting of expectations, no warnings.

     Sixth – there have been no updates to the Team Tool (still shows oDesk)

     Seventh, the new UpWork app for iOS is designed for the phone and is horrible on the iPad.

     Eight, not one official response from anyone at UpWork about these issues, or proposed workarounds or timetables for resolution.

     I’m actively renewing old memberships on other sites and exploring new ones. Very soon I will issue a recommendation to all of my existing clients as to which platform they should consider moving to.

     Also, side note: I’m not just a disgruntled nobody. I actually won the 2014 Digital Nomad of the Year contest…

     https://www.upwork.com/blog/2014/04/digital-nomad-winner-quit-sold-hit-road/
118. 

     The convergence of elance and odesk is a bad idea. They should of kept each separate and expanded the elance to be a better site, similar to odesk. Now every other listing on upwork is like $5.00 or $30.00 to rebuild a whole website, sort of like guru dot com. The situation is a downfall and this is hurting the developers that do good work by allowing a larger number of jobs to be posted. This leads to less chance for a good developer to win a bid and lower quality work.
119. 

     I’m a freelancer on Elance and I disagree with your assessment in this article. You have takes a few examples and led readers to believe that this is then environment as a whole. I’m an audio professional with a small company – I rank 5th on Elance and am a top provider. I don’t work on the cheap, and I demand the same from an on-line client as I do for “real-time” clients, or I fire them as clients.

     This is a business.

     And while there are bottom feeders out there on both sides of the fence – if you buy the cheapest, most unqualified work, well, you get what you pay for.

     Hiring on line is no different than hiring in person, and the philosophy should be the same – “Slow to hire – quick to fire”. HR has to weed through hundreds of unqualified applicants to get to the one nugget – it’s the same with an online marketplace. Why do you think it’s any easier, or should be any easier.

     What stinks if the clients who want work for free in the for of an “unpaid trial”, or the clients who hire a provider, get the work from them, and then cancel the job.

     What sucks is when a great site like Elance merges with a bottom feeder site like UpWork, formerly oDesk, offers no protection for freelancers, charges more in monthly fees and then takes 10% of the freelancer earnings (Elance is 8.75%) and then tell you they’re closing down the work place and forcing you over to the bottom feeder site – more money and less valuem and really crappy clients.

     Freelancing isn’t easy.

     You have to be really good at what you do to make a living.

     Companies who want to hire a freelancer of quality must be willing to sift through the crap, just like the freelancers do, and pay for quality work.
120. 

     Caught a new Upwork ad this morning where Upwork is generalizing price for all at 15 per hour. The ad reads 15/hour graphic designer.
121. 

     I have had a fantastic experience on Odesk (now Upwork).
     I had a miserable local programmer that thought he was God’s gift to the IT world. He charged me $75/ hr. and failed miserably at what I needed him to do. His communication was horrid and $7000 later we parted.

     Enter Odesk/Upwork, although I had a steep learning curve with how to work effectively with people all over the world, I eventually found 2 absolutely wonderful, highly intelligent programmers that saved my company. They are in the Philippines and cost $21/hr. They are incredible communicators and unbelievable gifted.

     I use the platform for everything. I have had some ‘bad’ experiences with contractors, which I learned from, but all my problems were mediated by the staff.

     I do agree, however, with the fact that the most skilled persons lose out to low bidders who are often poor workers. I suppose you get what you pay for.
122. 

     Thank you for this, I was starting to get depressed, I am just getting my proverbial feet wet in this industry and seeing everyone outbid me on odesk for really low rates (although, I am very happy people from outside the US have this opportunity), I was starting to wonder if I was the only one who thought this was wierd. Weird.
123. 

     Great article, although I do disagree on using the ‘competition’ based websites. It doesn’t matter if your damn good – 100 designers submitting a logo on the same job, it’s highly likely there are 10 with skill and only 1 will get paid? Pretty wrong in my book. You wouldn’t hire 100 plumbers to show you how good they could do the job and then pay one of them would you?

     I have used Elance to source more clients and it has worked several times. I live in Australia where cost of living is HIGH and I refuse to compete with people in developing countries charging $2 an hour. There ARE people looking for a quality service but they shy away from going directly to a studio.
124. 

     Been using Odesk/Upworth for years but it is over now. I go to freelancer.com from now on.

     I spend more than 13 000 on odesk freelancers the past 2 years, using freelancers beside my regular employees, for special assignments and stuff

     I have 5 reason for change
     1. The 10% fee… freelancer.com is 3%
     2. The none user friendly interface, often I find myself clicking around for minutes to try find what I need
     3. The change of their payment policy to make the freelancers payments better and safe
     4. Increasing freelancers hourly rates
     6. Constantly getting spammed from Indian/Phaktistan agencies

     I can understand they want to make it better for the freelancers, but that way is to harcsh, I would like to be in control when and why money get charged from my creditcard. I have always paid on time, and I eager to give bonus for quick and quality work…. and I have a few times got crap work from freelancers on odesk
125. 

     I wish to know the better platforms than elance and odesk/upwork ,, that allow freelancers unlucky enough to get born in developing countries. It will be a great help, I am from Pakistan.
126. 

     I signed up to oDesk about 5 years ago and soon realized so called clients considered native university graduate Australians to be in competition with so called verified identities of experts in Pakistan, India and Bangladesh.

     I then turned my time on oDesk to post jobs and watch the multitude of ridiculous applications from 50,000 people who’s name was Abdula Albdoamnandah Audbnosgusla HI O WATA MANI..

     I event trial a few. My favorite was one so called website design expert who showed me a screen shot of a website he had created in a week. After pushing him for another week I got to see the “live website” which was a WordPress installation with a screenshot of a website.

     oDesk was taking on popularity with Australian small business owners and it became very hard to get website projects, SEO stuff and the other work I have been doing for 15 years.

     Freelancers don’t really earn a huge amount of money but save on the costs of going to work and live a very different lifestyle.

     From about 4 years ago until 1 year ago my income suffered greatly. I am talking a drop of 65-70%. Worse than that was the negative undertones and attitudes from local Australian clients as if paying 1,500 for a high quality website was ridiculous because they knew it was only worth $250 and they were obviously already going about it on oDesk while wasting my time and trying to get me to work at disgusting rates.

     This went on industry wide, and grew like herpes you knew you’d already been infected with.

     After a year of fighting it and watching more Australians catching on to oDesk (although they never want to admit it – and this included many big advertising and online marketing agencies in Australia) I decided I would do as much as possible to send the whole situation down the toilet. It was 2012 now…

     It was much less stress and didn’t feel like work. I did my usual work search and talked with small business owners but used those conversations/meetings to talk with them, make them feel important and let them know, and even recommend oDesk and told them the rates everyone was paying. I explained my services are niche and costly and I’d always be around to work in the future, at least on small projects or when the time was right.

     I spread emails, social media and was very impressed with the obvious increase in Australian clients and agencies using oDesk freelancers..Everyone was obviously telling everyone who they knew with pride on how cheap and easy it was to get websites, SEO experts, writers and everything they needed at “real” prices and not the ridiculous rates they did not want to pay for before.

     Then I sat back and watched the shXt hit the fan.

     I watched as I worked with online marketing companies in Australia and I was reading work done by those oDesk freelancers. I was reading documents with ridiculous errors. Even if someone managed to pull off the appearance they could write English website copy, articles and other SEO stuff well, the random and WEIRDEST errors in what I was reading was HILARIOUS!

     WhiteSmoke and other grammar checkers don’t help them write on everyday issues, like putting petrol in the car at a petrol station and paying with Visa PayWave, which was not surprising because it was obvious whoever wrote all that I was reading has never had running water, seen a bitumen road, a traffic light, an ATM, a bus pass, a cut lawn, a hairdresser or knew what a washing was.

     I really enjoyed helping those business owners with their troubles and sharing my advice on how to keep working with those freelancers, and that they were just seeing some teething problems – all normal stuff and it would go away soon.

     Yes, well you’re making really good ground and you’ve accomplished so much, and give them more flattering praise as I suggested an alternative approach, once again, on how they could use those freelancers to get more done.

     At the same time I delighted at seeing thousands of jobs being posted on oDesk to include work like write 5,000 articles of 500 words for $50 to be paid upon completion. I never broke any rules of engagement with any freelancers who were supposed to be doing the jobs,

     I wasted time of freelancers on oDesk who were obviously on oDesk as a launching platform for their future internet fraud careers and attempts at trying to be buddies with the goal of stealing information and acting like best buddies for $10-$30 once a month despite us never having actually done anything.

     The ways they could suggest sending payments was endless. It’s amazing how they can come up with another way to send them small bits of cash to their phone. I’d listen for this happening to those Australian small business owners as we chatted every now and then…

     ME:
     “Well maybe you’ve just taken these guys as far as they can go after all this time. I mean, you’ve done pretty well and you got so much out of them so far…”

     TYPICAL REPLY:
     “YOU KNOW, THAT’S JUST IT. IT DOESN’T SEEM LIKE MUCH HAS HAPPENED FOR A WHILE. I MEAN BENGAL IS SUCH A FRIENDLY GUY BUT I DON’T HAVE TIME TO CHAT WITH HIM ONCE A WEEK. AND IT ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE END UP THE SAME…”

     ME:
     “AH. 10 BUCKS FOR PHONE CREDIT OR GRANDMOTHER SICK AGAIN…”

     TYPICAL REPLY:
     “YEAH YOU KNOW. IT’S ONLY 10 BUCKS BUT I AM STARTING TO FEEL LIKE A CHARITY. IT’S KINDA GETTING A LITTLE OLD. I MEAN.. SOMETIMES I WONDER WHY I AM HAVING A MINDLESS CONVERSATION ON MESSENGER FOR 20 MINUTES AND TRANSFERRING MONEY AS IT ENDS AGAIN.”

     ME:
     “YEAH MATE. SOUNDS LIKE IT IS TIME TO STEP AWAY FOR A BIT. GET BACK TO DOING YOUR BUSINESS A BIT MORE, IT’S INTERNET WEB STUFF. IT TAKES TIME BUT THAT TIME AND EFFORT INVESTED WILL BRING IN MORE CUSTOMERS AND GET YOUR NAME OUT THERE ON THE WEB.”

     It wasn’t surprising to see news headlines on scamming and how Australians were getting ripped off with some of the simplest 409 style scams. Aussies are so far away from the rest of the world, and we can be a little gullible at times.

     You have to understand that I am describing what I knew to be true. It’s not like a panic frenzy in public or to anyone openly. The change in voices and how the Internet doesn’t work. Word of mouth and one by one customers became all important again. Freelancers were “forgotten” and didn’t take long before I didn’t hear from them again.

     With only 20 million people in the country, take away kids, the 5% mega rich who own Australia (The Big 4), pensioners

     My finale was beautiful. I am so proud of the fear I generated with well written and highly documented blog posts and news out to small business owners in Australia under well prepared social profiles explaining and educating them on how they had put their businesses and their futures, and all their clients across Australia at risk to data, credit card, password, banking,,insurance policies and every everything they had neglected to think about when dealing with those freelancers on oDesk.

     Worst of all, it had already happened and their was nothing they could ever do about stopping it, and they would never know when they would be sued to poverty and disgrace – now something they would have to live with for a very long time…

     Did you ever receive a screenshot from your freelancer via email?
     Did you ever chat over Skype with your freelancer?
     Do you know how to check your WordPress theme for hidden Javascript and do you know that it isn’t their to read because JavaScript, in layman’s terms, is like an application all of its own doing what it was put there to do. For example, it has collected every username and password every time every one of your clients logged in to your online store.
     Did you every wonder why your freelancer kept you talking about what they had for you and they would send to you in zip files?
     Is your laptop a window for only God know whom to your life and everything you’ve ever done on your computer for the last 2 years?

     Unfortunately, you will have a hard time tracking down anyone you’ve hired, even if they were originally verified on oDesk because you are in Australia and you probably don’t have the ABN numbers and Australian issued receipts with ABN numbers, which should have been a minimum requirement of your Australian company’s due diligence for safe business practices when dealing with other Australian businesses and customers when getting involved with Internet-based activities of any kind in Australia.

     In short using these freelancers, not from Australia is very risky for small Australian businesses. If the freelancer in the USA has a verified PayPal account, for example, and has a registered business/contractor registration details, a website design contract to help protect the website owner will contain all issues pertaining to liability and the like – for civil cases only.

     THE CHERRY ON THE CAKE WAS LETTING THESE SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS KNOW THEY ARE CRIMINALLY LIABLE FOR CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES ENACTED THROUGH THEIR WEBSITES.

     NO AMOUNT OF BUSINESS INSURANCE IS GOING TO SAVE YOU FROM FACING AND BEING FOUND GUILTY ON SERIOUS CRIMINAL FRAUD CHARGES (BY BOTH STATE AND AUSTRALIAN FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT, YES 2 SEPARATE JAIL TERMS OF AROUND 10 YEARS BUT DON’T WORRY YOU WILL GET OUT IN 5 YEARS FOR GOOD BEHAVIOR FOR EACH ) WHILE YOU ARE BEING SUED BY CUSTOMERS, YOU COME UNDER INVESTIGATION BY THE AUSTRALIAN TAX OFFICE, AND A NUMBER OF OTHER AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT BODIES.. WHILE YOU FACE THE LEGAL WRATH OF AUSTRALIAN BANKS AND BY THIS TIME, PROBABLY YOUR INSURANCE PROVIDER TOO. AFTER SERVING YOUR JAIL TIME, AT LEAST YOUR BANKRUPTCY STATUS WILL HAVE EXPIRED AND HOPEFULLY YOU MANAGED TO SAVE YOUR FAMILY FROM LOSING THEIR HOME WHILE YOU WERE IN JAIL (WITH BANKRUPTCY) AND IT WILL BE TIME TO GET A LOW PAYING NASTY JOB AND SETTLE YOUR PAYMENT AGREEMENTS WHILE YOU EARN AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE IT WILL BE GARNISHED FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE IF YOU MAKE IT TO 90.

     Sydney Lawyers sum this up beautifully…

     “If you know or suspect that you are being investigated for fraud make sure you seek legal advice at the earliest possible opportunity. An experienced criminal lawyer with expertise in fraud cases can help you defend yourself, and possibly avoid a hefty fine or a long-term prison sentence”

     Leading business and professional insurance providers in Sydney are pretty clear about what will happen too…

     “Australian businesses have significant obligations to protect the personal and business information and records at its disposal. It is not an acceptable excuse to claim that these records only came into risk through the actions of a hacker.

     Small business owners are obligated to protect the information in their custody. This includes adhering to the following laws:

     The Privacy Act: Your business may be required to protect the personal information it holds from misuse and loss, unauthorized access, modification or disclosure. Serious fines apply for non-compliance or a careless attitude..

     Corporations Act: Under the Corporations Act 2001, you must have ‘adequate protection’ over information at your disposal. Also, the Corporations Act imposes obligations to keep copies of business records for a number of years.

     Trade Practices Act: Another party may sue the business operator if they incur loss or damage through a security breach at your business.

     Directors’ Liability: A director is obliged to protect the corporate assets at their disposal, otherwise civil, Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) and criminal proceedings may result. As most small businesses now have some form of corporate entity structure or protection, this is now more relevant.

     Criminal Liability: If delegated employees act in a criminal manner, the business operator may be held responsible for their activities.

     Card Schemes: Under card schemes such as MasterCard and Visa, merchants are responsible for keeping all customer information safe and secure. If a merchant site is identified as a point of compromise this may result in heavy penalties and/or termination of merchant facilities”

     Thanks Google for Penguin and Panda, you helped bring some value back to the lives of online industry professionals.

     Needless to say, try and find an Australian client on oDesk if you think I am exaggerating.

     That was spectacular. None of these freelancer sites care less about freelancers, they are just about getting numbers up and merging and selling off their shares! The whole thing is a huge distraction to build merge sell and go on holiday.

     We’ve all been tricked into thinking it is a real way of working and the future, and it is something to be fought for now.

     It’s a scam!

     Thanks very much if you read this.

     See you next time.

     Talkto
     • 

       Thanks for your lengthy post.

       I am a contractor in oDesk / Upwork. It has been more than a year since I join this type of work. I am an architect from the Philippines and I have many years of experience in design and construction. The reason why I join this type of work is because I was hoping to find a job with a much higher rates. My first client was an Australian building contractor.

       The first barrier that I found challenging in this type of work is communication. I am not fluent in speaking English as engineers and other professionals in our field seldom speak the language although we use it almost everyday in the office and field when reading and writing documents. To make matters worse, we are using the American English while the Aussies are using British English. As a result, many of the familiar words that we commonly use in the construction business sound strange to me.

       When it comes to the kind of people that we are going deal with abroad here online, I think it makes no difference. “People are the same wherever you go, there are good and bad.” (Beatles lyrics)

       Filipinos are naturally hard workers. They are not good businessman. Thirty years ago, the Middle East is our favorite destination and would make an overseas worker coming from there a proud man when he returns home on a vacation. But now the situation is no longer the same because the rates there are going lower than before so that only those family men are compelled to accept the opportunities in order to survive. They attribute the decrease in hourly rates on competition.

       I am seeing a similar future for online jobs.
       • 

         Well said. Being Filipino I can agree that we’re naturally hard workers – and much nicer overall IMO! 🙂
         • 

           you should not be able to compete in us market its bs you should not be able to work at all in are market get off are economy and go work in your own country you have ruined my field of work and thanks to you little india fuckers 100 of thousands of united states citizens cant get fucking jobs after graduating I hope an earthquake swallows india and all you little fucking out source countries whole its bullshit.
           • 

             You are not out of work because of Indians. Its your behavior and way of talking you need to change. Anyways, People like you should die falling down the stairs. You should get infected with HIV Virus you little whore. Your face should have lots of pimples and puss. I hope you enjoy all the pain of world. I hope your kids beat you everyday.
           • 

             Charlotte, you’re disgusting, what is wrong with you? Are you really that filled with hate that you’ve turned into a racist idiot because you can’t get a job? I am Canadian, I work as a full-time freelancer, and I make plenty of money. Diversify. Go after private clients. Hone your skills, find niches. Don’t be a racist jerk because you’re frustrated.

             Also, do you even realize your picture and full name is attached to this? A quick Google search links almost immediately to your linkedin. Maybe part of the reason you aren’t hired is your web history/etiquette. Just some food for thought.
127. 

     I guess there are always exceptions to all the failures and frustrated expectations. I had a beyond-my-wildest-dreams-successful experience with an illustrator I found on elance.
     Some of that may have been dumb luck, but by submitting an almost-overly-detailed project description, limiting my geographical search area to the US (so I wouldn’t have to explain the vibe I wanted to someone from a different culture), and being willing to accept NOBODY if I couldn’t fine the person I was really looking for, I managed to find an illustrator who happily worked with me for a full year, and we had a blast.
     So it can happen. But maybe it’s garbage in/garbage out: If you’re expecting professionalism, it starts with you.
128. 

     Upwork (and ODesk) in its current state is a pure crap compared to Elance.

     Closing of Elance is a simply a disaster!
129. 

     I have been successful with Elance over the past couple of years and with very few exceptions been pleased. Then, Elance became “an Upwork Company” amid the expected hoopla. At the end of the day I would be paying a higher fee to Upwork, will be waiting longer for payments from clients to clear (for “security purposes” and now the kicker that convinced me to cancel the Upwork relationship:

     Upwork, unlike Elance, will not offer the option to post earnings and rates in the freelancer profile. Earnings and rates will be posted with no other option. Any person interested in hiring me will see my past hourly rate worked on jobs that may be similar or quite different from the job they are posting. If I intend to bid a job at $35 or $40/hour, they potential client will know that – two years ago – I charged only $27.50. Not cool. And no way around it.

     I cancelled with Upwork today and received an email from them (as if I was an Upwork customer) claiming that THEY had cancelled or suspended its relationship with me claiming ” While we can’t discuss why the account was closed, please be assured that our focus is to ensure a safe and trusted workplace for you.” Upwork has taken a very effective place for freelancers and those looking for their services to meet up and trashed it.
     • 

       Thanks for the additional info Rick, it’s a shame you can’t hide your rate from previous jobs.
130. 

     Upwork should be called UpYOU, freelancers!

     After wrestling for three days with obnoxious support workers over my profile, it’s clear to me that Upwork’s ultimate goal is to create to a photo-verified NSA-style database of private intel to secretly exploit for commercial gain.

     There is no useful way to search jobs. Crap website developer jobs are mixed in with legal work despite designations. Ditto timing. Old and expired jobs continue to waste time and effort b/c there is no way of knowing any of the most relevant details unless you actually click on the job.

     Elance had a policy of no sharing personal information. Not Upyours.

     It’s a serious breach of privacy with no lawful purpose. Upyours is a privacy, stalking, crypto-profit lawsuit waiting to happen. Bring it on!

     I wouldn’t trust Upyours policy makers to walk my dog.

     Desperately seeking Elance-quality Upyours competitors!
     • 

       Ditto on EVERYTHING you said!!!
131. 

     A time will come when Elance came to know they made a mistake merging elance with odesk. But unfortunately its not going to reverse

     might good for odesk but too bad decision taken from Elance think tank already

     In any case I wish Elance all the best but things appears to be worst from here on
132. 

     I find it extraordinary that people here are abusing people for using the service and looking for cheaper options? And hypocritical.
     Us Westerners have benefitted greatly from the global economy. Your T-Shirts, Shoes, Electrical goods, etc. You wouldn’t have such a high material standard of living if it wasn’t for the Global economy. Not saying it’s a good thing, but its here to stay and don’t bleat about someone going for a cheaper option unless you’ve never done it yourself. In any capacity

     Its the new way of the world. Copywrite, Labor force, music, tv shows are not what they used to be. Whinge all we want, it aint going to change, it’s just going to get stronger, and we all have to adapt. Sure there’s a lot of churn at the moment and the sands are constantly shifting, but it’ll settle down into what works.
     Yes, the rich will still get richer and the poor get the picture as big business works out how to manipulate content and data more and more, but at least it allows opportunities for the poorer countries that they didn’t have before.

     I guess when using services like this, you way up the cost benefits v the risks like anything. If you have a project that HAS to be perfect and on time be more careful. And sure you might have a few false starts, but that’s the price you pay. Be prepared for that

     And with everything treat it with logic and compassion.
     If I find a good freelancer then I establish a relationship and will pay a little more than what they originally asked. It promotes loyalty, and makes the person doing the work for you feel good, and makes you feel good. And gets you a more reliable service at the end of the day. It’s not rocket science.
     • 

       I agree I hate clients because they are greedy they have literally made me hate my profession no the fhen I wont lower my standards so you can out source a source of an already outsourced market… seriously? $10 for a logo design lets find it cheaper maybe lets got fiverr we can get it for 1 cent on odesk I hope you all lose your cushy rich jobs you make me sick as a graphic designer. I hope that next person who does your project gives you the photoshop vomit you deserve I hate you all and I never ever want to design for a client again ughhhh! makes me so mad… like seriously no other occupation has this problem … you think I could get away with running a contest with my doctors to see who could be the cheapest and do the best work umm no … nothing else works like that… you think I could eat free at 20 different food places and only pay for the one I like the best screw you all screw all you clients.
133. 

     I just made an account on Upwork and the differences are incredible.
     Firstly, the feed for contracts is 10% (instead of 8.75% on Elance). Then, the withdrawn methods, make you to loose more money. To withdrawn on Paypal, you have to pay 1$/extraction (on Elance is free) and on bank 3$ (the first withdrawn from the month on Elance is free.) Also, you can’t make a withdrawn any time, and you have to select one from the options : once a week, once a month, etc.
     Another difference is that, you have to bid with 2 connects on every job, instead of 1(Elance).

     I’m working on Elance, with big clients like Listerine, Nicorette, O.B, Imodium and more others and as I heart, after the Elance will close, they won’t sign in on Upwork.

     Honestly, I can’t see a good difference between Elance and Upwork, and after Elance will close, I won’t work on Upwork. I hope that somebody will make a platform, like Elance.
     • 

       Yikes, lots more fees. Thanks for providing this info.

       Keep in mind though that they do pay ~3% in credit card processing. In the grand scheme of things, the 7-8% they make per transaction isn’t very big.
     • 

       So true. There is a reason most of us avoided oDesk. All UpChuck is is oDesk with a new name.

       I’m horrified.

       Do you know of another online freelance site?
134. 

     I have profiles on both Elance (Yishan camelcased it incorrectly) and Upwork, but I work and hire solely through Upwork. The only rule of thumb that appears to have held out so far? (No, it’s not the “first hour” rule.) Low-quality clients and low-quality contractors are meant for each other. A match made in heaven, that. Neither party cares about quality, ethics, or anything even remotely long-term. But once you figure that out, and become much more selective about jobs, you’ll find there are diamonds in the rough on both sides. It takes time and a lot of patience but it pays off in a big way. I have worked with and for a number of passionate, intelligent, and dedicated entrepreneurs in all kinds of circumstances around the world, all trying to bootstrap their way to success. I’m glad to be a part of THAT community.
135. 

     Staff.com is a another good option for online jobs. Try to check this alternative.
136. 

     Because of this Connects system and all the bugs associated with the transition to Upwork I find it very very hard to get work these days. And I have more than 220 jobs on oDesk.
137. 

     I hate Elance’s new policy on clearing project fees. As a contractor, it’s not benefiting me. It’s been five days, and they still haven’t cleared my money. They mark my ticket as ‘Solved’ even if they haven’t replied or given a satisfactory answer to my questions/concerns.

     Upwork is still like oDesk. The features of the site is hardly commendable. Compared to Elance, there are few options for filtering jobs. Anyway, I’m already looking for other alternatives to Upwork/Elance. Some clients/contractors are already doing the same thing.
138. 

     I am in the middle of a nightmare with Upwork. Basically the person I hired isn’t the person doing the work, so fraud, false and misleading conduct. I have disputed via Paypal but they have ruled in favour of seller due to changes in their policies. I will now dispute via Visa. Has anyone sued Upwork? I would be interested in taking this path
139. 

     I read all the above and would like to add something important to the table. It might be vital to understand the background of the current Elance/Upwork processes if you are going to hire someone there.

     First of all, Elance, for the last 2-3 years has been constantly changing their economical focus. Being a Top 1% provider there (software dev) for the entire history of Elance we can say we know some insider info, and Elance behavior is quite clear to us. One day, 4-5 years ago, Elance discovered a new money making strategy for them – shifting focus from the commissions on transactions to earning from every single provider monthly subscription and bids they make.

     It is really simple, imagine that every single project gets 60-70-80 and more bids from different freelancers. Even with 1 connect for bid, this may convert into 50 dollars just from the bidding activity. And this is true for every project, no matter if it’s real or not, no matter what client it is, it make be just a proposal harvesting or a fake project. No matter what, Elance gets their 50dollars from every project listing. Assuming than only 10% (in reality, less) of project listings end with deal, it would mean approximately $500 dollars that Elance earns for every real project in their system – EVEN IF the project budget is $50 and EVEN BEFORE a project work begins. Again, $500 for every real project (a deal) before any works begin. I guess there is no need to calculate how much they could get from the transactions – with 8% commissions, every project should be of $6000 value to bring the same money for Elance.

     Let’s not forget all the monthly subscriptions. At least $10 per a freelancer. How many freelancers are there? Over 1,500,000 profiles registered! Indeed, only a portion of them are paid members, but still.

     Also, with this economy in mind, Elance deliberately pushes outsourcing companies out of their platform. Why? 100 new “freelancers” will tear each other fighting for 10 separate projects and give Elance 100 times more than a single project contracted to a single company. As for the clients needs – who cares?

     Knowing all that, there should be no more further questions on why Elance (and consequently, Upwork and oDesk) is so bad. Apparently, Elance/Upwork/oDesk do not care of the quality of freelancers, or quality of clients/project, or that serious projects can not be implemented with freelancers – this would be silly for them to even think about it. All they need is billion of bidders, and all possible silly project postings they can find and attract – this is exactly how Elance/Upwork earn.

     Funny thing – Elance/Upwork can even generate “dummy” project requests by themselfes, and harvest money from bidding activity )) No one would be able to verify if this is a real client behind it.

     So, this strategy of the largest online project marketplace led us to the point when Elance has 1.5 star rating at Yelp. Worse, hundred thousands of clients lost their money there working with Indian/Pakistan yesterday farmers, now “freelancers” (you can “become”a java programmer in India by taking a 3 month course).

     Among our clients I think every 3rd one got ripped by such freelancers, expecting to get something for 1/3 of price. In the end they got NOTHING, wasted time and money. And most important, they lost confidence into outsourcing doing business with those FREElancers.

     10 years ago, Elance really cared about their clients, and they had their own business analysts and project managers to assist clients through the entire project life cycle. Also, Elance kept good relationships with their top providers – verified outsourcing companies that bring reliable and quality services.

     So, nowadays, if you want to hire someone at Elance/Upwork/oDesk, may be you’d better stay away from them? I can hardly imagine how to maintain sanity reading through a hundred of freelancers’ pitches (read spam), and then being able to GUESS who would not rip you off.

     I can only wish a good luck (or may be a good new place to meet at?) to all of us – good clients trying to find good and reliable outsourcing providers. Don’t hesitate to get in touch with me directly, if you need anything ))
     • 

       Where many other companies spam their links in the comments (which are removed), thank you for providing detailed feedback as a top 1% provider. I encourage others reading this to consider Andre for software development work.
     • 

       I wish I’d read this before I’d written my post. This makes TOTAL sense.
     • 

       Thanks for your breakdown.

       What I am noticing is that a lot of the complainers (which I am one) are all design/software folks (of which I am not). I’m a PM/VA and let me tell you, I am not feeling Upwork at all. I signed on with both oDesk and Elance when I first entered the freelance world. I quickly abandoned oDesk as it was clear they catered to third world country wages. I do not mind a client trying to save money, heck that is what I’m counting on for hiring me, but to pay $2 to $3 an hour. Shame on them. I would not want to work for that person. Elance I had better luck. I was new so I started out at $7 an hour. Now my my minimum rate is $18, I have had pretty good success. I know people who have already made the switch and they are now being flooded with laundering money requests, jobs for $3 an hour. All reasons they too left oDesk.

       I think I’d rather take my chances on Craig’s List. Unless someone else has a better site suggestion.
     • 

       That’s eye-opening and in fact really alarming. Reads more like videogame monetization than a labour platform to be honest!
140. 

     As an elance user who has hired several freelancers and completed more than 50 jobs successfully over the span of 3 years, i totally and completely disagree with your analysis. Perhaps I am just lucky to have quality individuals who perform as advertised and to my specifications? If so, may my luck never run out!
     • 

       I never said you can’t find good freelancers on either platform, I’m just describing the state of the freelance marketplace when it’s driven by price over value.

       I still use Elance/Upwork from time to time and show you my hiring process in a later post.
141. 

     This is exactly what my thoughts are on this site of upwork. I am true freelancer and very good at what I do. However, the jobs that I have seen on there are either SPAM jobs…asking you to do things with money that is obviously not a business, a student asking you to attend his online class (seriously), or receive messages about requesting an interview day and they’ll send you an invite…and they never do, or so vague you know they have no idea what they want. This site is a joke and extremely disappointed that Upwork doesn’t review job orders for validity.

     Then you have the Asia/Pacific freelancers working for $2/hr. Really???

     I have flagged more jobs than I have applied to – maybe it’s because I’ve been in HR for almost 15 years and know what job posting should look like and what a scam is?!
     • 

       Yeah, I have experienced the same scenarios mentioned. I have received several messages and after I reply the client I don’t hear back anymore. Then I have this one client, he already awarded me the job and I am requesting him to release the funds but he’s no longer contacting me. Like, wth, with Elance, I felt safer and I found it easier to find good jobs but Upwork is really disgusting.
142. 

     Your argument is pretty outdated now that Upwork has merged into a single company and has a new monopoly in treating freelancers like slaves… these horrible experiences now popping up everywhere it seems!
143. 

     What are people using instead if they think Upwork is ‘meh’ and Elance is going away? I have been to Guru it is ‘Ok’. What are other freelance platforms that you would recommend?
144. 

     OMG I am a graphic designer and seriously to the lady at the top who commented about some zip project management crap… hello clients are offering $10 for a logo design sometimes for 2 do you really think they are going to pay for a project manager? I can only laugh at $10 and FYI I wont even stand in line at starbucks and chat with you for $10 so that’s what you get. You pay $10 you get a non English speaking idiot who doesn’t know his color theory from his anus. Good luck with that. FYI your new $10 logo represents one thing… you are either homeless or about to go out of business , have a nice day cheapos.
     • 

       I got a fantastic logo for $5 at Fiverr.
       • 

         And I got over 170 refunds on fiverr from incompetent workers. I do have one good fiverr worker that I’ve cultivated for several years, and I won’t say who it is, but they got over 800 jobs from me.
     • 

       I feel your pain Charlotte. The american cheapos are the worst. They have the money, yet they would rather spend $10 for a Bangladesh moron than pay a FAIR wage for a PROFESSIONAL job. Classic greedy american capitalism. Get everything for nothing.
145. 

     Where should US freelancers go to earn enough to pay rent, power, food etc?
     • 

       US freelancers just can’t compete with freelancers from developing countries. Hey, you guys from US started outsourcing, so you have to pay for it now.
     • 

       Elance told me connects are not transferable, and I’m still paying for Elance connects even though no jobs are available or being posted. I will have to change my account after I withdraw the rest of my money from there.
     • 

       The sad reality is there is no freelancing agency that offers high caliber jobs for first world freelancers. A sad reality now … but it is the truth.
146. 

     i had a Horrible experience on Elance. Hired some incompetent idiot who ripped me off. I complained to Elance who did absolute nothing. These sites do a bad job of vetting people who post jobs,
     • 

       Didn’t you use Escrow?
147. 

     I have created a new online platform where you get a smarter, personalized, developer discovery experience. We work personally on each request to find the right developer fit for you.
148. 

     Need a hacker for general or specialized hacks, hack into email accounts(gmail, yahoo, aol etc.), gain access to various social networks (such as facebook, twitter, instagram, badoo etc.), specialized and experienced hacking into educational institutions, change of grades, clearing of criminal records, smartphone hack. contact us via [link removed]
149. 

     Many years ago I started my business on Elance. I have used it as a buyer and a provider. As a provider, I didn’t mind troweling around in the mess to find a few good clients–and there were many. The problem was that rules changed so frequently. There was always a new way of doing something, a new term of service to wrap my mind around. It was cumbersome for me and my clients. Elance had a rule that you had to work with clients on the system for a year, and the system was such a pain that most of my clients weren’t willing to do that and were always trying to lure me off, so I either had to break my contract or lose the client. That hassle made me uncomfortable and wasn’t worth it for me.

     When looking for contractors, I found that I had two problems. 1) I had the same same system-changing problems my clients had (though there’s better customer service on the client side) and 2) even though I was willing to pay decent rates, after deleting all the crap bids there were just a couple left and those people seemed to be so wary of crazy buyers who didn’t know what they wanted that there was this curtain of hostility and suspicion that you had to walk through to get anything done. I wasn’t that impressed. I’ve found people locally who were just easier to get to know.

     Too bad. Elance used to really fill a need for me, but I just think they’re more interested in iterating for a moving target than branding for a particular target market and building a platform that consistently fills that market’s needs.
150. 

     Hi,

     Thanks for the information.

     Would appreciate if you could let me know if in case Elance connects will be transferred to Upwork profile or not.

     Please help!
     • 

       Elance told me connects are not transferable, and I’m still paying for Elance connects even though no jobs are available or being posted. I will have to change my account after I withdraw the rest of my money from there.
151. 

     I just joined upwork last week and I have to say after spending time individually responding to jobs, I have either been ignored or declined. As I am currently “between jobs” and just the wrong side of 40 I wanted to supplement my income while job hunting with some freelance work. Most of the competition from the site seems to come from workers charging from as low as $4 per hour. For me this is simply impossible to compete with and so I was happy to receive an acceptance for a data-entry job from some guy in the US. He sent me a couple of links one for a sample of work and the other to the database in google docs. When I clicked the link I was asked to enter my email and password to log in to google (kind of strange I thought since I was already logged in) but hey, this is the new online world of freelance for me, so I entered my details anyway. You guessed it, some “error” message appeared saying that the file couldn’t be opened and so I contacted the guy in the US who said he had other projects available so could I give him my email and cell phone. Which I ignored. Turns out, I was hit by a phishing scam and was emailed by upwork a few days later telling me to change my upwork passwords and all email passwords. Be warned – I assumed that upwork took jobs from carefully screened clients with genuine projects. It turns out they don’t have any checks in place and will accept jobs from anyone.
     • 

       How do you know what the other bids are? I’m brand new trying upwork. I need some additional income and fast!!

       I think the upwork website and app are terrible. I was submitting a proposal and it wasn’t clear if the bid amount was per hour or per project until I tried to submit it and got a pop up. I went back to the job posting which was fairly sparse and no place on it did it give a duration or the bid type requested. I couldn’t find a thing on the website to answer my question. So I put $99999. I figured I have myself covered either way lol.
152. 

     Hey, I think Hubstaff plagiarized your work.
153. 

     Oops sorry, wrong tab.
154. 

     Upwork merge is a disaster. Everyone loved oDesk and Elance, but hates this new merge. The website structure is terrible, removed simple 5 star rating and added a Job Success Score system that has about 95% freelancers irate with crap scores, increased fees, and the vast majority of clients are *%$#s who want many hours of professional work done for pennies.

     Upwork has totally gouged my income and forced me to compete with unlivable wages.

     If this were 300yrs ago, I’d rally up the villagers with pitchforks and torches and burn the place down…..
     • 

       I agree….sort of. Bringing in all those freelancers from Elance and Freelancer.com really did drag UpWork down, because those sites had some really low class freelancers working there. UpWork’s method of taking 10 percent of the earnings, rather than gouging a freelancer upfront, is much better. I tried working through Freelancer.com, and I ended up owing THEM money just for doing a job!

       Some of the changes, like the switch away from the five star rating, were pointless and confusing. I’ll give you that one. Other than that, UpWork has it all over other sites.
155. 

     If anyone is having a “horror story” experience on oDesk (now called UpWork) they’re doing something wrong.

     I’ve worked through UpWork for nearly six years now, earning 14,000 part time in the last year as a freelance writer. Yes, the site is competitive. Yes, there are literally hundreds of freelancers on there, a lot of them of very poor quality. Clients who post jobs there have to search through ten, twenty, sometimes 30 different proposals to find a writer they want to work with. So what? Wouldn’t companies be doing the same thing if they posted a job and took in applications? And here’s the secret that the writer of this article missed: the client DOESN’T HAVE TO HIRE ANYONE. If no one meets their needs, they don’t have to hire.

     From a freelancer’s perspective this site has been a Godsend. Elance was horrible. You had to pay to even apply to a job, and God help you if the client paid you a little bit at a time because Elance took a bit of everything you were paid. UpWork is nothing like that. No upfront fees (you get a certain number of proposals you can make each month, but that’s the only restriction), and they take 10 percent of what you make on any job, and that’s all. Everything else is money in your pocket.

     Thankfully, this is no longer an issue. Elance doesn’t exist. UpWork merged with them and got rid of their horrible practices.

     If anyone out there is a freelance writer and is looking for a good site to work through, I definitely recommend UpWork.
     • 

       I’m not sure what you’re talking about.

       Elance never made you pay to apply for a job. They had the same free, basic membership that Upwork has.

       The difference is that it actually costs more per bid on Upwork. They give you more bids to start, but the average job costs more bids to apply to.

       Also, Upwork has the higher fees and assess them in the exact same way Elance did. They also make you wait longer for payments to clear before you can access them.

       I’m honestly suspecting that you’re a paid shill considering that everything you just said is blatantly incorrect.
       • 

         I’ll also add that the $10 per month Upwork membership gives you 10 extra bids per month.

         Compare that to the extra 20 bids Elance gave you with their $10 plan.

         Not to mention that bids are actually worth less on Upwork, like I mentioned above.

         Again, your claims are completely false.
     • 

       I doubt the validity of this entire post. Upwork is not a 6 year old company; http://www.forbes.com/sites/elainepofeldt/2015/05/05/elance-odesk-becomes-upwork-today-odesk-brand-gets-phased-out/

       And you didn’t have to pay for any job on Elance. You had the option of having a paid membership, but the free membership allowed you unlimited bids IF you were invited to apply for a job. If you weren’t invited you could use 40 connects a month (a lot of jobs cost just one connect)

       And as of the date of your post Elance does indeed still exist. Yes, it will be phased out, but it has not happened yet.

       So either you are a troll or you are working to try to counteract the negative reaction Upwork has encountered.
     • 

       Are you an Upwork staffer? Nothing you say has any validity – not one word. Upwork has been in business less than a year O-Desk existed before that. The quality of Upwork bid requests is so below standards of the industry – it hedges on non-existent descriptions. Their customer service is extremely pathetic. They have rules that don’t control fraudulent bidders, they hide bids from true agency bidders with years of experience, they violate credit card rules and far more. If you are happy with Upwork for 6 years, and have never had a problem, I’d say that you’ve lied through your teeth and you work for Upwork. They lie by saying they are in the US when they are in the Philippines, and they probably don’t pay any taxes to the US either, but I’m having IRS check that out.
156. 

     First of all, this article is part of the problem.

     “this mostly with Indian developers (he is trying now Russians)”

     Uhh… did you ever consider hiring people from developed countries? Something like 50% of the people in India don’t even have indoor plumbing.

     Why didn’t they hire their “friends”? Oh, because they actually charge real rates.

     The issue with these freelance sites are the CLIENTS. They want to pay people $3 an hour — half of what people make frying potatoes in the US — yet expect professional and highly-technical skilled work.

     Everyone is trying to “boostrap” their “startup” with $13.47 in their pocket and absolutely no business knowledge.

     Then when Amir from India who barely speaks English can’t give them a website that looks like the ones that cost thousands of dollars, they blame the guy who’s getting paid $3 an hour.

     I’ve seen listings on Elance looking for a “New York Times bestseller” to write their book… for like $500. That is not a joke.

     The requirements that “clients” list for their ridiculous jobs gets even worse as time goes on. The lowest paying clients actually tend to have the highest expectations, believe it or not. The higher my own rates get, the more pleasant the clients are to work with.

     As a writer, I currently charge $100 for a 1,000 word article. And that’s for topics I already know well and barely have to research.

     Yet you have people here complaining that they can’t find a quality writer at $10 per 800 words. Duh. Wake up.

     The majority of the content on the internet is written by freelancers, they’re just not interested in working for your pitiful rates. They also tend to avoid freelancing sites since they’re filled with clients with similarly pitiful rates.

     To be clear, I’m not saying that clients with a smaller budget shouldn’t be able to hire people with lower rates. That is mutually beneficial for both parties.

     The problem is clients who think they can get high-quality work for the lowest of rates.
157. 

     I too was taken by Upwork. I hired one of their contractors who did not provide end product. After hiring them, I found out the freelancer did not even have an Apple or Google Developer account and couldn’t do the project. I also found out the person was using a fake name. I asked for a deposit refund and Elance sent it to arbitration even though I did not agree to arbitration. They charged more on my credit card even after I cancelled the authorization of the card. We are still in dispute and I am having to fight to get my deposit back.

     oDesk, Upwork, Elance and the AAA are all related. I feel they are just taking peoples money anyway they can.

     My suggestion to anyone thinking of using them… DON’T USE THESE SERVICES! You have no recourse if things go sideways
158. 

     Very interesting, I have found this website and the content is very useful. Regards!!!
159. 

     I recently caught my daughter on this website talking to strangers. UpWork have no security for minors to prevent them getting on or using there parents card details. They told me I need to talk with my daughter instead of them. This is now a case for the Federal Trade Commission. They won’t even provide me with the conversations grown men have been having with my daughter. Disgusting site that clearly doesn’t approve of child safety. Avoid them!
     • 

       Let me suggest you contact the Attorney General’s office, and the State Police for action. This company has more problems than brains – and the should be able to give you the conversation … but they do not help in any situation, even one where a child’s safety is at risk.
160. 

     Doesn’t it bother anyone that Upwork, formerly O-Desk, begins and ends with a lie? They say their offices are in California, in the same building as Elance, when in fact, they are in the Philippines and virtually their entire customer service effort is Filipino. And, they just are using elance’s address (due to the merger, a merger which only benefitted Rosati and Swart) to befraud their sellers, their buyers, and minimum wage laws in the country they say they are in? I review all proposal requests for our capabilities, and have bid on maybe 120 – and were awarded perhaps less than 15, mostly from our own elance clients who didn’t want to go private, and have seen only the worst behavior from the Upwork clients. To begin with – their requests for proposals SUCK. We’ve been in business 38 years, I’ve been in the publishing and printing business 56 years, and I’ve bid contracts for big cities, small counties, and the US Federal government – and won multi-million dollar contracts before I retired from Corporate America. I come to Upwork, through 12+ years on elance – actually since elance’s first year. We did about $400,000 on elance. The last couple of years before the merger were the best, we did about $60,000 per year. We are a top level publishing typesetter, art agency, with staff of 15 years or more experience each – and our 1350+ clients on elance recognized that. We got 35% repeat business. That’s pretty darned good, and our service was 3 days – changes in 24 hours or less. We are a family business, staffed with knowledgeable and experienced professional with great credentials and about 10,000 projects since we began in business. We never thought that elance would pull this merger/migration shit and our clients from elance couldn’t find us on Upwork, nor that 60% of our history would disappear in the migration. But only 3 clients out of over 1000 have found us. We have great friends in other Elance companies (agencies, Upwork calls it) and they have reported considerable fraud of Upwork hiding bids, and once bids are placed dozens of $3 or $5 bids are put in for multi-hundred dollar jobs from people without experience. On Elance we got about 30% of the jobs we bid on. Upwork, we only get small dollar jobs, without any margin for profit. Upwork customer support hears about problems from me every single day. They must be tired of being called stupid, idiots, or maze creators for building a site that is just illogical and amateurish. They must hire $3 an hour developers to create a maze that outperforms any maze book I’ve completed. I am an American Corporate executive, retired to a 3rd world country for cost of living. Our minimum wage here is about 55 cents per hour. But, our staff is paid $8-18 per hour, because our clients are mostly American, British, European, or Australian and we are a family. How the merger created a situation where ignoramus thinking takes the 8 3/4% percent of a former $100 job (=$8.75) for example, and now charges 10% of the same job selling for $5.00 (=$.50) in Upwork fees, is truly beyond me. How they can even keep the doors open with this ignorant operation of business economics. I have no problem with people in 3rd world countries, except that one Elancer I hired as a VA, hacked Elance and stole $5,000 from my elance account, got our banking information and tried to hack our bank for another $8,000 on the day we terminated him for a bad job. That really happened in May of 2011 – that Elancer was from the Philippines, and we don’t hire from the Philippines because of it. We do 90% of the work we sell ourselves, the rest is done by contracted staffers in Europe and India – who are long term partners. They have verified all that I have said about the Merger/Migration (which took over 5 months to accomplish migration) and during that time our sales dropped so much because of the delay of migration. In fact, it never recovered because even after migration CLIENTS CAN’T FIND US ON UPWORK. Upwork’s solution – they gave us 10 more bidding credits and no further help. But, they threatened to cancel our ability to work on Upwork for calling their site idiotic and their developers idiots. And, unquestionably – the entire organization fits into that category. I don’t care who you are, where you are from, Upwork won’t work for you. We’ve booked about $2,000 in sales there, cancelled some because clients don’t understand system incompatibility on certain software with Macintosh. We’re a PC firm and they expect everything to work cross-platform. Simply, it doesn’t – not everything. But, for the most part – Elance buyers for many years bought for quality and service. Upwork buyers don’t give specifications for bid, but from $3 per hour or less sources, and/or want the work for free. Rosati and Swart have destroyed the entire industry and brought a bad name to freelancing.
     • 

       I couldn’t agree more. I am from the Philippines and I am glad that there are new job opportunities for other Filipinos but this new site is really terrible, it affects a lot of freelancers including me and many are not happy about it. Well, good luck to them, I heard a lot has been moving to Guru and freelancer.com.
161. 

     i got hired two times on upwork but i don,t know to do the work. actually what i was doing with job was not giving any information on upwork profile. clients ended contract stating that i have done no thing. but in real i had done most part of the job. kindly guide me on my first job. if a video clip attached, then it will fantastic.
     video clip should elaborating a sample job on work
     • 

       To shehzad ali –> Well, you’re the perfect example of a freelancer in those websites who are clamoring to bid for jobs that YOU DO NOT KNOW!!!

       Problem with freelancing sites is you can post jobs (client) and bid endlessly (freelancer) with bogus profiles. There are even leaked exams that many job bidders have used to pass the qualifications/tests, but fail to deliver the job.

       Me and my writer friends have ended our connection with clients via these sites as we cannot find enough stable clients who are ready to pay the right, reasonable rates for quality write-ups. I have a friend who never had to bid there and she’s been freelancing for over a year with 2 stable clients from UK. She takes other clients who occasionally request for articles and blog posts, and she’s firm with her rates ($10 min for 400-words). We’re from the Philippines, so for us a $10 article with 400-500 words are still within reason.
     • 

       To shehzad ali –> Well, you’re the perfect example of a freelancer in those websites who are clamoring to bid for jobs that YOU DO NOT KNOW!!!

       Problem with freelancing sites is you can post jobs (client) and bid endlessly (freelancer) with bogus profiles. There are even leaked exams that many job bidders have used to pass the qualifications/tests, but fail to deliver the job.

       Me and my writer friends have ended our connection with clients via these sites as we cannot find enough stable clients who are ready to pay the right, reasonable rates for quality write-ups. I have a friend who never had to bid there and she’s been freelancing for over a year with 2 stable clients from UK. She takes other clients who occasionally request for articles and blog posts, and she’s firm with her rates ($10 min for 400-words). We’re from the Philippines, so for us a $10 article with 400-500 words are still within reason.
162. 

     Upwork is a crap. I loved Elance and now I am left frustrated with how disgusting this new site is. They allow employers to put minimal rates like $3 per article, like seriously, that’s just so unreasonable. I also find it harder to apply for jobs, I can not see the client profile and its not user friendly like Elance was.
     • 

       I agree with your points. Upwork has ruined a perfectly good platform (Elance).
163. 

     Odesk, Elance And Upwork are two of the most amazing platforms for individuals to do work at home. I have been doing content optimization, article writing and much more. So in case you need my help.
164. 

     Its also not easy to win projects we you dont have enough reviews and you need to keep on trying for a long time to get some projects. But when your on the track then its easy.
165. 

     Freelancer has bad accounting practices. They post one amount on your invoice and then take out another amount from your debit card. They don’t send emails about billing they just grab the money from your account without notice. When a mistake is made and your account is over drafted, it takes a long time to get any response from them. All of a sudden they are MIA. Try resolving the matter directly with your bank and then they finally response by blocking your account. Claiming your identity needs to be verified. They once made a mistake on my account, finally reversed the charges but for a lower amount!

     I also encounters a dishonest designer who plagiarism his winning design. I haven’t received a refund. I am sure I never will.

     I have had some good experiences with them. I have indeed found an excellent designer, but quite frankly I am afraid to give them any of my banking info. which I need to use their account. Needless to say I had to cancel my debit card because they will billing me left and right for memberships I never asked for, if a project is open there is another fee.

     I like the simplicity of Fiverr. They spell everything out. You pay for the gigs, it is placed is escrow and when the job is completed the deal is done. Only thing about Fiverr is they are lacking honest talent. So many artist misrepresent their true skills and you will waste a lot of time with these pretenders.

     I would say Freelancer’s biggest plus is their IT freelancers. Again, you never know until you use them, but some of them are winners.

     Customer service is very poor with Freelancer.
166. 

     Hi Jay Soriano,

     Thank you for writing this up with so much details. I have added this in my official site to refer people on your article.

     Regards,
     – Zeeshan
167. 

     So, here is a deal. My account was suspended because during transfer from elance ot upwork system created two accounts. But, upwork dudes suspended both accounts, including workable one, which I had with eLance since 2011-2010. They alse erased all my record. IN the process of figuring out, etc, they blamed it all on me (Bryce, was his name, I think). It has been a month since my account is suspended – I have not had a single reply to my email regarding offers how to solve the problem, how to work it out, etc. I None of my emails was actually answered even if they send answer. all boilerplate mambo-jumbo. So, I go to my other email, which had duplicate account, and send email saying – please, go ahead and close this account, no problem, hopefully this will solve the issue. Thats fine, etc. I get response from the same guy. His response states what? I am sorry we deleted this account, even though you are asking us to restore it we cannot reverse our decision and restore it. bye bye, deal closed. I figured out that this person probably have not read my email at all. He did not read ONE SENTENCE properly. And he was making decision to suspend or not to suspend accounts? If he was my employee – he would be fired on the spot. here is their response.

     me: ok you can close this account associated with this email

     They: Bryce Y. (Upwork Help Center)
     Feb 12, 9:22 AM

     Hello …………,

     I’ve reviewed your account with our team and it seems your account was closed due to irregularities detected by our system.

     We regularly review member accounts to ensure activity follows Upwork policies and guidelines. If you wish to review our Terms and Conditions, please visit:

     I understand your concern, but in discussing this with our team I am not able to reverse the decision.

     Regards,
     Bryce Y.
     Upwork Risk Management Team

     ???????? Yeah, I did ask to close this account, whats up?) So much for customer service
     • 

       I actually searched for the term “bryce y.” “upwork” and found this blog. My account just got suspended indefinitely by this “bryce y.” after wrongfully accusing me of using an auto-clicker software.

       All the support that Upwork has can’t even comprehend that after 7+ years, 6,000+ hours, $80,000+ earnings, and while working with a long term client, there’s just no reason at all for me to use any auto clicker software for a few hours?! That is just plain stupid of me to risk everything I have worked so hard for for a few hours of stolen work.

       And check this out as quoted:

       “You will have the option to appeal the suspension after you have completed all of your jobs, but we will not be able to consider your account appeal before then.

       Positive outcomes on your open jobs will be an important indicator that the violation has been resolved in the final appeal decision. In addition, we will review all other aspects of your account.”

       So yeah, they still want me to continue making money for them and when that contract’s done, then “maybe” my account can be reinstated. Not all hostage takers are offline after all.

       But yeah, it is what it is. There’s not even a customer support # anymore that we can call Upwork and live chat has already been taken down so now, all we freelancers can do is just wait for the next “support” to jump in on our ticket (my ticket has 3 names on it already) and wish that person/robot wouldn’t just copy paste the canned response the previous support gave (I got that once on one ticket).
168. 

     I was a top rated freelancer on upwork.com, but got some bogus reviews from an unorganized client, which then gave me a rating right under their top rated program. Customer service won’t do anything, and their fee structure needs to be changed, so I left. Also, If you want to work for $3/hour, that site is great.
169. 

     I was with Elance for several years, never had an unresolved issue. When Upwork took over things went bad, and they are getting worse at a rapidly escalating pace. They did not make their most recent payment, but the following day they did auto-collect membership fees. For me this resulted in an overdraft fee on my checking account. I talked to my bank tonight over 24 hours after Upwork sent notice of the payment they did NOT make. My bank has no record of even their attempt to deposit. We know they have my checking account info right they managed to extract their monthly membership fee from it. I think that everyone involved should look for the exit before we all get up one morning to find out that Upwork no longer exists.
     • 

       “before we all get up one morning to find out that Upwork no longer exists”. Frankly, it can’t be soon enough. I, too, started with Elance and worked there for 1+ years. I have a 100% Job Success Rate (which is now on Upwork) and met some wonderful clients. The shift to Upwork has totally ruined my online freelance business. The site is very unreliable, they keep taking away features from freelancers (the latest…you don’t even get to see who the other freelancers are that are bidding on jobs). So very unprofessional. I am sad because I have completed 144 jobs and 180 hours of work on Elance, which carries over to Upwork. I have completed a few jobs on Upwork, but finding jobs that pay more than $5 or $10 is getting more and more difficult.
170. 

     I’ve been using freelancer for 7 years (it was named getafreelancer before) and it was quite good a while back ago. Nowadays the site seems just an indian market: most of bidders are from india and half of the projects are being posted by Indians or Pakistanis. I’m a top rated developer over there but I find it very difficult to get a response from those that are posting projects. Might be because I became really unlucky or the number of fake projects got skyrocketed.
     Going to try other freelancing platforms to see if the issue is persistent.
     • 

       Hi Daniel,

       I’m in the process of starting my own freelancing website similar to UpWork and Freelancer. I’d like to keep it U.S. only for as long as possible because I believe in creating jobs in the US. Obviously I would like to make my website better than theirs too. One thing I’m going to focus strongly on is when a business posts for a project they have to fill a detailed questionnaire so the freelancer doesn’t have to do a lot of the ‘guess work’. What things would you recommend me putting on the questionnaire? Do you have any other suggestions? As a freelancer, your input would help greatly!

       Thanks!
     • 

       “Going to try other freelancing platforms to see if the issue is persistent.” It is, unfortunately.
171. 

     I got my my first freelancer job when freelancer was called get a coder circa 2008.
     I tried to get other jobs but my expected job seems that was over what the customers at that site were willing to pay.

     Some years later (2012 I think) I registered and start working at oDesk. Compared with my experience in freelancer I found customers looking for quality and were willing to pay reasonable rates. Almost 4 years oDesk/Upwork is exactly what the post says: Customers looking for experts at $5/hour – Projects that will take no less than 10 hours for $5 also!

     I still get some contracts on Upwork fro time to time (I do freelance in my spare time) but each time is harder find good projects.

     Definitely will try TopTal.
172. 

     Initially I spent up to 15, sometimes even 30 minutes to write a fully detailed proposal that dealt with exactly the client”s needs and even went to the trouble of suggesting how to improve the job, make it run smooth, even gave examples of my work or other sources as inspiration. I have never heard back from these proposals. As a freelancer, spending 20 minutes on average on a single job proposal is a huge time drain and not even getting a response back means time was wasted.

     So I started sending out the exact same proposal to every single job I was interested, changing 1-2 sentences per application or writing something additional based on the requirement itself. And guess what, I landed a lot more jobs this way. So don’t tell me about lazy, patched-up copy-paste proposals when clients probably take the detailed ones and give them as instructions to cheap indians that work for $1 per day!
173. 

     After Elance, I started to use 99 Designs and People per Coin.
     They are pretty good. The first one is full of jobs but full of freelancers also. The second one does not have so much jobs but also doesn’t have many freelancers and much lower fees.
     UpWork is really upsetting me and I’ve lost a month of work there. UpWork, please revive Elance, PLEASE!
174. 

     Allright. I got. But and if I need contract a freelancer or company for make a site, I search WHERE??
175. 

     Okay people,

     There’s a lot of criticism about UpWork (formerly oDesk and eLance) and Freelancer. My question to all you freelancers out there, what DO you want to see in a freelancing website??? A pay restructure? Or filtering quality work from the bad? Your input would greatly be appreciated!

     Thanks!
     • 

       I want to see a freelancing site that treats freelancers with respect, and allows them to interact with their clients professionally and intelligently. I want to see a freelancing site that is built like, and works like, Elance, NOT like Upwork. I want a site that isn’t down a good portion of the time, like Upwork is. I want a site with reliable features and tools, like emails and messages that work, time clock software that works correctly most all of the time, etc.

       I started out on Elance and can’t say enough good things about the site. Then it was merged, taken over, or whatever happened (probably invested in, so now it is all about the ROI for the investors) and it turned into Upwork, a horrible replacement.

       I would like the freelancing site staff to sort through jobs as they are posted, and eliminate the scams, instead of relying on freelancers to do their work for them, for free. I would like clients to have to have a confirmed source of payment before their job gets posted. And if they remove their source of payment before the job is finished, the site takes that up with the client, instead of punishing the freelancing. I would like to be able to see what other freelancers are bidding on jobs (a feature that Upwork just took away this past week), who gets hired for the job, and if the freelancer pays a monthly fee, see the $$ amount that others bid. This all helps the freelancer in determining whether they should work with a client or not, in addition to seeing feedback on clients. For instance, if a particular client NEVER hires anyone for over $X/per hour, and that rate is WAY lower than what I want to make, I don’t have to bid on jobs from that client.

       I would like a site that filters out dishonest and unprofessional freelancers, so that clients know they are hiring good people.

       I understand that no site is perfect…there will always be bad clients, and there will always be bad freelancers. But Upwork seems to have attracted the worst of the worst in both categories. Maybe it is because they allow bids for jobs for $5? Come on, there isn’t ANY job on that site that can be done professionally for $5…it takes more time than that just to write a proposal and a job ticket!

       Upwork has taken so many features away from freelancers and is treating them with disrespect. A business relationship between a client and a freelancer should almost be like a partnership, where both sides deserve respect.

       I can’t compare freelancer.com, as I have not used them yet. I am registered on Guru, too, but my work history is with Elance, so starting from scratch with a new company is going to take some time to build up a rep. I will check out freelancer.com.
     • 

       Relative to what I do, (software, engineering, R&D), Upwork’s biggest problem is that they can’t decide whether they’re really doing contracting or doing temp hiring. The jobs are so small that they don’t make any sense as temp hiring, but Upwork encourages clients to look at it like that with the “interview” paradigm and this hourly rate tracking app. In my world, if you’re talking less than $20k, you’re talking about firm fixed price contracts. We want this, here’s the spec, here’s the terms. Everything has to be very well defined and clear, otherwise the overhead from bid and proposal with the low hit rate makes it impossible to even break even. If you want to hire somebody to do an actual open-ended job, you have to actually hire them. The mixing of these two paradigms and the failure of the clients to understand it (which is largely Upwork’s fault, IMO) really kills its potential.
176. 

     I hired a programmer on freelancer to build a barcode inspection program for me. I have built many MS Access programs but I had not time so I was excited to try Freelancer.

     I probably could have finished the program in a week. A real programmer could have done it in 2 days.

     It took this guy over two months to get it right. The worst part was that he had to make excuses on every single step along the way. He made my life harder and I paid him to do that!

     I keep thinking that I did something wrong. My specs were clear as day. To be honest, I’m afraid to try Freelancer again.

     David
177. 

     Okay, so finding the right freelancer for a design job can be tricky, BUT I see UpWork going nowhere but down. It has shifted its focus to be so client-centered, that it is driving away all talented, self-respecting, experienced US designers withing lightning speed. I’m an experienced bay area graphic designer (who has done a lot of work for big name silicon valley tech clients.) I’ve used Elance occasionally over the years to pick up extra work when things were slow. Last week, I got an hourly rate design request from a past client on Elance, so the new UpWork forced me to download their latest “desktop app”. I had to track the time I spent on the project in real-time by pressing a stopwatch button on and off. Ok, fine. But, as if this wasn’t obnoxious enough, the app took screenshots of my laptop screen every few minutes so that the client can review them later. It was very distracting. Of course, I have no access to these screenshots. It felt SO rude and invasive. God forbid I need to check my email while a graphic is rendering. Then I have to worry about the screenshot being taken at the moment I’m trying to read an email. Anyhow, using their new app was the most demeaning, BIG BROTHER-ISH design experience I’ve ever had. I will not be looking for gigs there again. Treating their designers (who they siphon 10% from for every job) like untrustworthy toddlers is going one step too far. Good luck UpWork.
178. 

     Jennifer, hourly workers on oDesk/Upwork have always been subject to that surveillance software.
     Upwork just sent out an announcement that they are taking a larger chunk of contractor money. I believe it’s 20 percent of the first $500, so that means you only get $400. It’s really too bad; I don’t think I will be looking for work on there anymore.
179. 

     I was forced to use UpWork do to its acquisition of Elance. I loved how Elance worked. It needed improvements like any platform, but they made changes and had a clean user interface. They were fair to their buyers and from a freelancer standpoint, the fees were ok. I’ve heard a bit high at times.

     However, upwork is awful. It’s hard to work efficiently in their system. Finding qualified freelancers is hard. Management of a project is not at all intuitive because of their workflow.

     They do not respond to feedback or support requests. I have had unacknowledged support requests that have gone on for months.

     Now they are charging “buyers” a fee to use their service, and they raised the prices on freelancers.

     I have a few jobs left on there because of the loop in from Elance to upwork, but I will not be keeping my hiring freelancer services on their platform. Especially, with the addition of fees.

     I predict they will not survive these fees along with their sub-par platform. It’s a rabbit hole you don’t want to go down. First of all, hirers of freelancers have to pay an additional fee on top of processing fees to the bank/PayPal/CC they already have to pay. Freelancers fees have doubled to 20% per $500 or less job. I’d surmise that most jobs are below $500 at a time. That could cause freelancers not to be competitive, wanting to bid jobs higher as to not be hit with the “higher” fees. In turn, buyers will not hire them. Oh, and there are alternatives to upwork.
180. 

     Indeed, i have read this article before few months ago and I am again reading it today. Out of all the platforms on which i worked, elance was far better. now with all that mess and higher fee, i feel the only think that matter for these talented, selfish & greedy folks is their profit & that too any cost, dominate the market and roll out sophisticated exploitation systems and people are simply forced as there are so little choice. All the time they claim it brings better opportunities, financial freedom, work-life balance however it’s just simply an over exaggerated promise that rarely materializes and most of us can’t even afford a sustainable life via these platform let alone other financial freedom and work life balance.
181. 

     The new fees are outrageous. I’m gonna start looking for another platform or work privately.
182. 

     I have worked freelance for over ten years, as a virtual assistant and content writer. Much of my work came from eLance and word of mouth. Having relocated for personal reasons, finding work online became increasingly important.

     With the change to Upwork, many of my eLance clients decided to work with me independently, largely because at that stage their UX was not good with UpWork. I continue to prospect on UpWork, and find even with the fee increase it is the best platform for me. Freelancer wants me to pay before I get started on a project. Outsource.com wants a $44 month subscription before I can look at a prospective client’s record and see if they are real or a spam artist. I never find anything good on Guru, but maybe I havent looked hard enough. Prospecting takes time.

     I find with UpWork I have to be selective about applying, and I do submit detailed proposals. I only search for those who want expert level pricing, and that cuts out a lot of what is offered there. The competition is ridiculous – I get a lot of interviews and have picked up some good clients. I also respond to invites – most are spam, or from new people who think they want to try a virtual assistant but they have no idea how to delegate and communicate, or build a virtual team. Instead they want to “try out” small projects – and in the meantime, given my realtor background, I firmly believe in Always Be Prospecting….so those relationships are not built. They just do not know how to work within a virtual environment.

     Unfortunately, the quality positions are few, and the clients have to read through a lot of stupid proposals. Sometimes clients respond asking me to divulge personal information such as “I must know you have a US phone number, give me your skype name” before we have set up an interview. Those I do not respond to, or my response is “When we have communicated through Upwork you will have my references and contact information”.

     The invites I get are usually spam. I report those. I sure wish there were a way to eliminate those people – either spam, fraud, or content mills for writers.

     I am currently working with some really great clients, and looking for one more to fill my schedule. My concern over UpWork changing its pricing model is that they are going to dive like some of my clients who are start ups, and fold from poor capitalization. I dont know what their situation is, but they seem to be having issues.
183. 

     Seems it’s a load of crap from my recent experience. You are dealing with people who have absolutely no idea of why Graphic Design takes time and thus not willing to pay for it. Factor in that people from Pakistan will work for $3 an hour and anyone in the Western world is priced out. Ive seen people asking for brochure designs for $60!! Crazy.
184. 

     I see a lot of posts about starting their own freelancer site. Why don’t we all band together and create an open source solution so that it’s easy to spawn new sites and create some healthy competition in this market?
185. 

     The last job posting I put on upwork resulted in multiple DIRECT calls to my phone, work email address, skype address, personal email address, google chat. They all mentioned they saw the job posting on upwork – and its the only place I posted. Its overwhelming and I will not use upwork again for a job posting. They found the email of a consultant to my business and emailed him.

     Beware
186. 

     Upwork really sucks. It only promises to solve our problems but it never does. I’m highly disappointed with the service of Upwork. There are not one or two problems that we can count on. I don’t know why the hell they created Upwork. It’s just a website full of useless things. Upwork charges 20% and the employers here look for $1/hr freelancers so working on upwork is like counting pennies. Even the tech staff is not skilled enough and they cannot resolve issues related to tracker.
187. 

     I’ve been trying Upwork some as a freelancer, basically trying to fill in some dead time because a certain Federal agency keeps delaying a contract, and my experiences haven’t been very positive. It does seem true that most of the employers don’t have any idea what they’re doing, and they’re not very reliable. I don’t even get responses to proposals. I had one guy who contacted me act like the contract was a done deal, but it turns out he was just trying to hit me up for free advice, I think. I’m a PhD EE with 25 years of experience, and I can do most of these contracts I see with my eyes closed, but the employers don’t know what they need and they really don’t know how much it costs.. But the biggest problem is that it simply takes way too much time bidding on these penny-ante contracts because the people offering them just don’t have the professionalism to know how to spec them and close the deal in a reasonable amount of time. You have to understand that if offerors have to spend huge amounts of time figuring out what you want and mucking around with fruitless negotiations with clueless amateurs, that creates a lot of overhead, and if you don’t compensate for that, they’re just not going to use the platform. I’d have to charge $300 an hour to make this make economic sense.
188. 

     Hi, i’m a freelancer to upwork and i’m very difficult to catch the attention of a contractor.I already to my work just to focus here on upwork but till now no work/opportunity given to me.Please help me out to have my job the earlier.Thanks
189. 

     Please beware of Upwork.
     They charge you ahead of time and do not refund the money even if work is not completed. It has been a nightmare for me with this company. As soon as they have your money, there is no one to speak to,. When you call the people answering are very friendly but use fake names. So, if you call back and mention the name of the person you spoke to they tell you no one with that name works there.
     As soon as I asked for my money back for a job that was never done, they asked me to send them a copy of my passport, drivers license and also a copy of a utility bill. They had MY money and were asking me for my personal information – something PayPal or any credit card company would not even ask.
     When I told them I was not comfortable passing on my personal information, I was told they would then not be able to release the money that was owed to me.
     This company is a scam. Buyer beware. And do not hire anyone unless you are ready to be charged 5 times what you expect.
190. 

     There is not much difference between Freelancer & Upwork, As an advice I would suggest giving a test project first to see if one fully understood the job not just a mediocre worker or worst a phony one. There is ups and down when using Elance and Upwork, just remember to carefully examine every contractor. just my two cents
191. 

     Having worked with freelance websites before it’s almost impossible to spend anytime in the Western World using them. With undercutting (for us anyway) always at the forefront most western freelancers don’t have a chance with some of the bids being run.

     Why these freelance websites don’t put a minimum option in is confusing, if they’re taking 20% you’d think it would benefit them in the long run anyway.
192. 

     Agree with you guys. Besides, this site is only for non-experience designers, I’ll never do a brochure for only 10 or 15 bucks, no way!!!. If you think you are a designer, and you create and move objects and texts with word or power point, go ahead!. People who’s looking for designers on these ites, there’re not looking for good job but really cheap job.
193. 

     I’ve found the same problem with Upwork and it has been a continual struggle from the start. For content writers, you are being lowballed left and right by cheap companies who are expecting good work. I’m shocked by the prices I see on that stupid site and how they are able to even ask for $1 for 100 words… come on.

     However, I Upwork gave me the chance to pursue something I wouldn’t have been able to pursue given no degree. Yea I took bad paying jobs, but I learned formatting, SEO, wordpress, typing skills. The list goes on.

     You shouldn’t quit your job and expect Upwork to pay your bills. When I first started I was writing 3,500 words A DAY for $52.50… with loads of research! Don’t let that kill your motivation. If you want to write, push through the bad paying jobs and build yourself a portfolio. I used my published writings as samples for future jobs. Now I finally have a good paying job as an SEO specialist and work on little projects i WANT to work on in my free time.

     I believe I still have a contract open for that $1.50 for 100 words I took so long ago. I won’t write for that anymore and never will again.

     Best of luck to you guys!
194. 

     The customer support at UPWORK is terrible. The departments are seperated and the only way you can talk to a real person on upwork with no automated and generic replies, is with the customer support phone line. However, they can only solve problems to a certain extent because the department that handles the REAL problems can only be reached through e-mail.

     My account was suspended because my client asked if I accepted payment outside of upwork–to which we then agreed upon NO and decided to go with upwork. Who knew that just by ANSWERING that question, it was considered “discussing” payments outside of upwork which followed with my account being suspended. When I asked to resolve this, I only got automated and generic replies from upwork. When I tried to talk to customer support on the phone, they told me that they have no way to deal with this since it is not their department and that I can only reach that department through e-mail. I constantly tried to get through to the department so I can have a REAL conversation to try and resolve this matter, but NOPE. Generic copy and pasted replies, instead of someone who genuinely is there to listen and work things out.

     This little mistep caused my permanent suspension and ban from upwork. I would definitely advise people not to use Upwork in general. There are so many “little” misteps that are hidden underneath Upwork’s agreement. I certaintly did not know that just by replying to a quesiton, it was considered as discussion, which left me with my account being permantly banned and with no one wiling to openly help resolve my case with care.
195. 

     A issue that clattering freelancers mind to got an opportunity at digital marketplace. But the article about freelance and upwork marketplace will turn up your outsource business into right path.
     Thanks to dear author for sharing his researched report with us. In that case, i also try to help those freelancers who want to build their own outsource business successfully.
196. 

     Awesome Article and i totally agree with your points which you have shared in this post.
     Keep posting like this info with us.
197. 

     I used Elance for years. I had 4.7 out of 5 stars and finished all but two of my contracts. Most of my clients left very favorable feedback.
     When they morphed into the monster Upwork I was gifted a 63% completion rate.

     Now I can not win a contract to save my life…..literally…..writing this from the grave.
198. 

     I still have vrry detailed profiles on upwork. i used to use both Elance and Odesk and now theu merged. i noticed back in 2012 after spending sometimes 8 hours a day, carefiully going through new posts by business’ daily. carefully craftimg up to 20 individualized proposals per site.At one point I realized businesses woild post the same contractst on both sites. I was able to get a few good projects but I would be feeding my kids hot dogs and beans one week and hamburger the next. Because yoi never know when you would be accepted for a projrct or if you would do the project. I am a paralegal/legal assistant. I am also a good paralegal who takes pride in her work. But I would get frustrated. Occasionally, I would find businesses that wanted quality. I even lowered my hourly rate in 2012 from $15/hr to $8-$9/hr just so I could feed my kids. But gave up because 99% of people wanted contracts or complicated llegal documents. Even thougjh as a Paralegal, I can only prepare documents or create contracts based on premuse you give me. Some of those documents take hours. And internet law is still behind and more so 4 years ago. So many times there were no template$, even with my 20 years experience and contacts. Often contracts had.to be built from scratch and requited my yrars of experience. And if someone wanted a bankruptcu in most States, paralegals are only allowed to charge $149-$169 fr a simple ch7 bankruptcy is a munimum of 25-27 pages depending on local rules. And we can be fined $2,000 if you give us incorrect information and we submit it. Our names, social security numbers, addresses, etc have to be listed on 3-4 documents stating paralegals drafted the documents. I say all of this to say it was so frustrating because these businesses would want to pay us shat people in India or Phillipinez would charge of $2/hr. You canNt buy a gallon of milk ANYWHERE in the U.S. for $2.They wanted us to accept unlivable wages, put our reputations and possibly get fined. If we didn’t, they would hire that person from India or Phillipenes where they can live on $2/hr. And if they mess up, they don’t live here so have no reputation tp worru about. And canNt be thrown in jail if they misrepresrnt themselves. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the law. And want to work freelance rather than very small disabled veteran pay. but nothing has changed. I get invitations to interview every few months. But they generallywant a complicated document in a fwq hours or still pay a very low wage. If ANYONE knows where a qualified, experienced freelance paralegal can get work. PLEASE let me know.
199. 

     The main problem I found on Upwork is that as a newcomer with ZERO upwork hours nobody is considering me despite my professional proposals. For upwork having been around for a long while, it’s almost impossible for newcomers now. And I have a good portfolio plus I’m using the minimum rate.
     • 

       I am going thru the same thing. It may be a lost cause. Upwork is aweful! I’m new, no rep. and I’m competing against people who have a cost of living that is a fraction of my own.
200. 

     I’ve had bad luck on Freelancer.com. You have to be lucky to get the winning big and competition is so high. I don’t see how anybody can quit their day jobs and earn a full-time income on freelancer.com unless they are lucky and get the winning bid every time. Even Upwork has been a little struggle. I recently started with them and did some low-paying jobs to build up a reputation and hopefully get some high-paying positions. I would love to eventually quit my office job and become a freelancer full-time, but I’m not sure if Upwork would be the place to do it.
201. 

     It’s really simple. You get what you pay for. You will not get rock-solid web development for bargain basement pricing. You are better off to ask other business owners who have got web development done in the past year who they used, or Google for someone reliable in your area.
202. 

     This is insane.

     I can’t believe companies or developers do this.

     I charge anywhere from 110 to 190 an hour and find enterprise work primarily through network.

     I am more than willing to respond as intelligently as I can to terrible postings in order to get in the door and spend a few sessions discussing the project and possible solutions over coffee, a beer, or slack. Its not uncommon to built a prototype or proof of concept for free and host it myself online before signing a statement of work.

     That said companies that don’t appear to understand what they want or aren’t willing to take the time to discuss their needs in detail are an immediate no go. If you don’t have a point person that is willing to learn about the solution and understand some of the nuance between the different options then you’re not serious. If you just want it done quick and to not be bothered then you aren’t respecting your own company as a client, my company as a skilled service provider, or the product we are trying to collaborate on.

     Its down right rude.
203. 

     I really like the whole UpWork idea. It provides the tools and infrastructure for freelancers and also for people searching for someone to get their job done. They have a great policy to maintain a high standard of quality. I have used it in the past and I highly recommend it to each person who is either seeking professional freelancers or to work and earn there.
204. 

     Here’s how it works if you have an IT background.

     You go cheap on a developer in India or the like. IMO, you have about a 50% chance of finding someone competent and trustworthy. $10/per hour (greater than the US federal min slave wage of $7/hr) is good money in India. So you may ask the freelancer to refine your site: CSS, responsive design etc. You tell them what you DON”T want them to do. You wake up the next morning and they have done just that because they are not nearly as skilled as their profile states.

     Your site now takes 6 seconds to load and is full of useless animations through Elementor that they activated to try to impress you. Your pages inexplicably now have 10 elementor text editor widgets (~3 sentences per widget) for some reason. Try changing the font of one page by having to adjust 10 widgets. You spend hours reversing their work.

     You express your disappointment. You make no mention of pay. They offer a discount for a good review. You feel bad because they live in a place like India so you do just that. And on to their next victim. I’m 0/2 so far. I may give up and just do it myself.

     In the alternative that same person may be able to setup a WordPress theme and host for you for a $100 flat fee. You may be ok there. My website existed prior.

     One guy claimed he had a comp sci degree from a University. I asked him to confirm. He ignored that request. I asked the next day and he responds: “I confirm”.
205. 

     Dear Jay,

     Good article and fair explanatory however, a few observations and comments. 🙂

     [Editor’s redaction note: spelling error corrected]

     In my experience, if you take the time to read through the bio’s of upworkers filter out the ones stiffed by businesses that are just as shady as some of the freelancers you can find some real gems. I have spent over $20k on Upwork over the years and would say I have had a 90% successful experience. But it takes diligence and a level of trust. For example I very rarely use the intrusive screen capturing work diary. It is no way to start a relationship..

     What I hate about UPwork is the awful user experience of the site, messaging, video, projects are all sub par. I want to communicate in Apps like Telegram not on platform it is too tedious and slow. The presumption by the site that every business that wants to communicate with the freelancer is trying to stiff them from a fee to UPwork is also galling.
     I value the payment platform, it is a shame the freelancer is stiffed so much for commission, but as a business it simplifies payment. I have no interest in taking payment off platform or working with a freelancer off platform where payment is required for work done. I resent the UPwork approach of late to threaten and intimidate freelancers and businesses alike, especially when the platform experience is the reason most want to communicate off platform not to stiff UPwork its commission.
     Alternatives to UPwork are highly desirable for that reason alone.

     Pick your freelancer with care, do the due diligence, do your homework, be reasonable and don’t penalise someone for not delivering what you expect, unless it is because they have failed to deliver or communicate. They face a bigger cost in reputation and fees than you as the employer do, if they have over promised and under delivered.